seems like a passive player doesnt bet out with top pair type of hands. They check/call because their whole thing is trapping you. seems like thats where the original read came from that caused Fees to think middle pair is good often enough. im guessing it illustrates the point that if you're paying close enough attention to opponents tendencies you have a much better idea of their range.

Playing passive is a losing strategy point blank period. Also, don't think in absolutes. If you think a passive never bluffs do you think an aggro is always bluffing?

And in that hand this villain is never vbetting THIN, so all aces are ruled out mostly, even AK. If he had AA then obv its for value but that wouldnt be a thin vbet.

he wouldnt play any ace like this that isnt 2pr and he might not even play 2pr like this. I check if he checks.

Um, lot of people are incapable of valuebetting thinly, specifically the river, so often times their river betting ranges are super polarized. There are no stats to explain a passive player taking this line to bluff.

Lets look at a more obvious insta fistpump snapcall situation from a passive player.


Lets say you raise A6hh from the CO, passive player flats the SB.

Flop is 962dd

He c/cs.

Turn is Jx (could be hearts, doesn't have to be)

He c/cs.

River is any non diamond, non 5-10.

He leads, just about any amount, you call. Hes going to have a missed draw here like evvvvvvery time.

Just an example of where passive players make these ******ed river bluffs which never make sense.

Great post.

I really appreciate the approach you take to the game and your philosophy on numbers. Poker is soo much of a feel game, even online and making decisions based on history and stacking the logic is definitely the best approach. HUD's are useful, of course, but relying on conventional wisdom for what they mean is a big mistake, imo.

Your approach is very refreshing and I must say that I have learned a lot from your 6 max strategy guide as well.

Definitely gonna start posting more as well!

I agree 100% with MikeyDangles.

Also, major kudos to fees for giving back to the beginners. Alot of HS regs seem to forget their roots and it's refreshing to see someone providing insight on how to start off on the right foot.

Yeah it's not Leslie, unless Leslie did a cameo in a three six mafia video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7gM75dF2s0

Go to like 3:36. My memory is siiiiiick I haven't seen this video in a minute lol

Big up fees, please keep posting these stimulating hands. I appreciate your insight for us beginners

fees why do you hate on HUDs when a lot of your books refers to HUD stats? And what are your thoughts on pot control?

The book was to teach people, most people use hud.

As far as pot control... legalize it imo.

Hell yeah! More people tooking while playing poker please!

zomg, in the avatar she looks like her but yeah it's not her.

Fees,
I played this hand last night against a reg that I have a lot of reads on.

This was about the 3rd hand since he sat down and with him being directly on my left I clicked the "sit out next blind button."

Anyways. He likes to 3 bet when he has a good A (AK, AQ, AJ, and AT occasionally) as well as KQ and KJ from time to time from the button if the initial raiser either raises a lot or is attempting to steal. He tends to call with PP and SC a lot of the time.

He does tend to float or raise a decent % of my cbets (damn regs sitting on my left).

Villain (bttn): $24.65
SB: $17.50
BB: $24.35
UTG: $7.50
Hero (MP): $34.15
CO: $45.25

Pre-Flop: 88 dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $1, CO folds, Villain calls, SB fiolds, BB folds

Flop: ($2.25) A73 (2 Players)
Hero bets $1.75, Villain calls

Turn: ($5.55) 2 (2 Players)
Hero bets $4.00, Villain calls

River: ($13.15) A (2 Players)
Hero bets $6.5

I decided to cbet (even against someone who floats and raises a lot) because if Im not going to do it on this flop I might as well just never do it.

I dont want to show what he did but given my reads that he tends to set mine with PP when in position and 3 bet hands like KQ+ and strong As is this spot. Is firing the 3rd barrel good here? I am almost certain he doesnt have an A (unless he decided to play A7 or A3). But the only way he was playing either A7 or A3 is if its suited so that leaves 1 combination of both A7 or A3. I feel with how agressive he is he would raise the turn when both straight and flush draws came up if he flopped a set of 3s or 7s. But I feel he would also raise with any 2 pair hands.

So is this river (bluff?) a good bet on my part?

For people who don't wanna go cold turkey on the HUD and have holdem manager, what I've started to do is turn HUD off but have the active player window open, so some stats are there if you really want them, but most of the time you begin to just play the player and not the numbers.
It helped me lose the mentality of "oh oh, this guys numbers are all red, better tread carefully here" and play hands in a much more game-flow dependent way.

Fees,
Took your advice last night and played only 3 tables no HUD. Made a sick hero call with 4th pair on the river that turned a small losing session into a winner because I was paying attention to a guys betting pattern of min raising EP with 2 suited cards lower than T. His shove was a horrible bluff based on his betting pattern and my read, nothing in the HUD would have told me this. Thanks.

I've only recently bought HEM, would you mind explaining what the 'active player window' is?

Thanks

ship it baby

If you go to the HUD options dropdown, its the last option. Its a window where all the players currently at your tables are listed in the left pane. When you click on one, all of their stats come up on the right pane, and you can also see a list of hands they have 3bet and called 3bets with and review their big hands and your notes on them etc.

zuutroy, thanks a lot. That feature is just awesome.

fees, what is the proper way to understand if a player is passive?

How often he raises/reraises preflop, or bets/raises postflop? its pretty striaght forward, if someone keeps clicking call they are passive

How can i get this?

Great post btw fees

Go to his blog here.

mistake that beginers make is that they too much time and work waste on pokerhud and stats
you 1st need to learn to play and think in poker way and to learn very good ABC game
on micro limits most of the **** is totaly mechanical with small adjustments to players and most of time the best way to play your hand is to play it in vacum.

i quited playing a hud now for almost 2k hands, and i really becoming a better player. Thanks Fees for your great advice. I start making notes now and making real reads and start thinking about villains think-process.

when i played with a hud i played like this, just an example.


HERO KQ in the CO Raises 3,5 blind
Button(40/10/4) calls and the blinds fold it is Heads up now

FLOP: AQ2

Hero bets 6 bb
Button calls

Turn 2x

Hero bets 12-15 BB
Villain calls

River 2x

Hero Checks
Villain bets 20 bbs
HERO checks AF of 4 and calls

that is obviously just plain stupid but somehow i just started playing very robotic and didnt make any notes soon as i started playing NL after transition of LIMIT(where i maked a dozen of notes)

I play currently 20 & 50 NL. I have knowledge of the game, but i never really looked into this section of the forum and i think thats why i am a bit spewish. Your advices are great. I read your book several times and i think it is great!, still waiting on a expandition(?).

So currently i am making notes almost about everything i see, the most valueable i have right is with what kind of hands people donks HU into you. But i think note taking is pretty hard. maybe i start a thread about it in this forum soon. we'll see.

still need to do revieuws every session i had. but working on it.



GREAT ADVICE FEES!
Ty sir.