Extracting value on scary boards
11-10-2009
, 04:46 AM
I'm wondering whether I could have gotten more value out of this.
Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
UTG: $3.83
UTG+1: $0.85
UTG+2: $1.61
MP1: $4.61
MP2: $2.95
CO: $3.41
BTN: $3.00
Hero (SB): $1.52
BB: $5.08
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with K
K
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.08, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $0.16
Flop: ($0.50) K
K
T (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks
Turn: ($0.50) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.10, UTG+2 calls $0.10
River: ($0.70) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.35, UTG+2 calls $0.35
Obviously, that flop is looking hell scary to villain no matter what he has in the hole. Was checking this flop a mistake here? It reeks of a trap to me, because I'd otherwise c/bet it to see where I was at.
Now the turn comes and it probably doesn't help matters much. If he has AJh, I'm screwed, but I don't give that much credit. So I make a 1/5 bet, hoping it smells weak enough to incite a bluff representing the flush.
The river. Should I have made a PSB? I know I wouldn't have called it. But then I wouldn't have flatted my weak-as turn bet either.
Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
UTG: $3.83
UTG+1: $0.85
UTG+2: $1.61
MP1: $4.61
MP2: $2.95
CO: $3.41
BTN: $3.00
Hero (SB): $1.52
BB: $5.08
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with K
K2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.08, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $0.16
Flop: ($0.50) K
K T (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+2 checks
Turn: ($0.50) Q
(2 players)Hero bets $0.10, UTG+2 calls $0.10
River: ($0.70) 8
(2 players)Hero bets $0.35, UTG+2 calls $0.35
Obviously, that flop is looking hell scary to villain no matter what he has in the hole. Was checking this flop a mistake here? It reeks of a trap to me, because I'd otherwise c/bet it to see where I was at.
Now the turn comes and it probably doesn't help matters much. If he has AJh, I'm screwed, but I don't give that much credit. So I make a 1/5 bet, hoping it smells weak enough to incite a bluff representing the flush.
The river. Should I have made a PSB? I know I wouldn't have called it. But then I wouldn't have flatted my weak-as turn bet either.
11-10-2009
, 05:08 AM
I don't think that flop is thaaat scary for the villain tbh. What's his bet/flat 3-bet range? Something like: AA, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AQ, AJ, ATs? I don't think you did yourself any favors checking the flop after 3-betting preflop. I'm immediately begin suspecting you're slowplaying AK/TT if I'm the villain. You showed aggression pre-flop, but then checked behind on the flop? That's usually a tip-off for a thinking player right off. I think most of the hands he flats your 3-bet with will peel a PSB on the flop; you're also giving him the opportunity to run a check/raise semi-bluff with several possible draws.
Betting 1/5 pot on the turn is a total head-scratcher. Betting small to induce a bluff is a reasonable play, but even then you need to bet >1/3 of the pot. Tons of his hands just got there with that Q and that's the street you need to try and extract value imo. Even if he just holds the A, you can bet more than you did. The combined line of PF 3-bet, F check, T 1/5pot just looks too weak to even be plausible/believable, so it comes across as, "I've got a monster and I'm desperately trying to keep you on the hook!
The river is a total blank, so villain still feels ~as good about his hand as he did on the turn, so you can probably bet 2/3 pot at least. I'm guessing he had AQx maybe? But given the fishy way you played the hand, I'm only just calling you down even if I have AJ or a low flush even. I swear I'm not weak-tight or being results-oriented, but I'm almost certain you've got some version of the nuts by this point and I'm mostly hoping to minimize my loss if I'm the villain.
Remember, you're playing cash game poker, not tournament, so the best way to extract value is with the line that will yield the best return over the long run, so even if you think he will only call a PSB on the river 51% of the time, that offers a better return than betting 1/2 pot, thinking he'll call 100% of the time out of curiosity, making the PSB the superior option.
Betting 1/5 pot on the turn is a total head-scratcher. Betting small to induce a bluff is a reasonable play, but even then you need to bet >1/3 of the pot. Tons of his hands just got there with that Q
and that's the street you need to try and extract value imo. Even if he just holds the A, you can bet more than you did. The combined line of PF 3-bet, F check, T 1/5pot just looks too weak to even be plausible/believable, so it comes across as, "I've got a monster and I'm desperately trying to keep you on the hook!The river is a total blank, so villain still feels ~as good about his hand as he did on the turn, so you can probably bet 2/3 pot at least. I'm guessing he had A
Qx maybe? But given the fishy way you played the hand, I'm only just calling you down even if I have AJ or a low flush even. I swear I'm not weak-tight or being results-oriented, but I'm almost certain you've got some version of the nuts by this point and I'm mostly hoping to minimize my loss if I'm the villain.Remember, you're playing cash game poker, not tournament, so the best way to extract value is with the line that will yield the best return over the long run, so even if you think he will only call a PSB on the river 51% of the time, that offers a better return than betting 1/2 pot, thinking he'll call 100% of the time out of curiosity, making the PSB the superior option.
Last edited by AcesFullMoon; 11-10-2009 at 05:13 AM.
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, 05:34 AM
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, 05:40 AM
