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04-20-2012 , 08:12 AM
I not a fan of hands like QJ, KJ, AT, QT, KT, AJ off suits. If they're suited, then great! I never had much luck with them so I just been calling instead of raising.

This is obviously a mistake because I feel like I'm not pre-raising enough.

I been try and experiementing with pre-raising but not sure what to do after. Should I just do continuation bets and stop betting when I get called?
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Don't know what to do with these hands...
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04-20-2012 , 08:16 AM
you mean you're limping them?

Post a hand. It's impossible to give a general answer.
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04-20-2012 , 08:20 AM
are you talking about open limping these hands or folding to a raise? how many players? fr/6max? mtt, cash, sng? We need some context.
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04-20-2012 , 05:05 PM
Whats limping them mean?

I play 0.01/0.02 stakes, micro. Usually 7 players cash game. Pokerstars

I sometimes don't see the point of bluffing in microstakes because people just don't care about the money.

The hands I listed above regularly coming up for me, I really don't know what to do so I always just call. Are there any better way to play them? I get them from all positions so it hard to say.

Should I only play them from late positions? The way I see it, they will all lose it to an Ace if they don't flop anything. I find it incredibly annoying when you raise with them but don't flop anything
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04-20-2012 , 05:30 PM
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...7/#post9216858
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...ns-bet-645508/

The first of these two articles goes into what to do with those "trouble hands" in the micros, but to cliff-notes it for you, if you're in late position and nobody else has raised pre, go ahead and raise them, but be very careful about CALLING raises with these hands, especially when the raiser raised from early position. If you have KJ you're in big trouble against KQ, AK, AQ and AJ for example. Even with AJ against KQ if there's a K or Q on the flop but not an A you're probably in trouble.

Also, up until about a week ago I thought, like you, that if these hands are suited it's a big advantage over if they're aren't, but in reality, the advantage is miniscule at best. The probably of flopping a four-flush is only 11%, and even THEN you still only have about a 36% chance of COMPLETING the flush, and even then you may not have the NUT flush!

If you have, for example, a four-flush and two overs to the board i.e. AKs on a board of Js8s4c, you have fifteen outs to either TPTK or the nut flush.

But if you have KJs on a board of Ts8s4c, you almost can't count the 3 Ks and 3 Js as outs because of the strong probability that someone else has an A or a Q (giving them a higher top pair than yours if THEY hit).

So, I would say take how much more you like suited cards than unsuited cards (especially those trouble hands) and cut it down to about 25% of what it was.

Good luck!
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04-20-2012 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazin-Flash
Whats limping them mean?

I play 0.01/0.02 stakes, micro. Usually 7 players cash game. Pokerstars

I sometimes don't see the point of bluffing in microstakes because people just don't care about the money.

The hands I listed above regularly coming up for me, I really don't know what to do so I always just call. Are there any better way to play them? I get them from all positions so it hard to say.

Should I only play them from late positions? The way I see it, they will all lose it to an Ace if they don't flop anything. I find it incredibly annoying when you raise with them but don't flop anything
playing those hands from the late positions to begin with then work your way out from other position once you get a idea of how to play them. Folding AJ, AQ, KQ in a full ring game is never bad. Try playing sitngo's instead of nano stakes, playing that low you just get eaten up by the rake so its pretty pointless. gl
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04-21-2012 , 05:32 AM
Those are "trouble hands". You should almost never be limping or calling with them, suited or otherwise. You can call with the suited versions if there are already two players in the pot and you're in late position, as you'll have decent odds to chase flush/straight draws, but the biggest problem is that if you make top pair, there's a fair chance that you'll be out-kicked and being taken to Valuetown.
If the pot has not been opened, or there is one limper and you have one of these hands in middle/late position, you can usually open-raise with them, to isolate a bad player (a limper) and/or to steal the blinds.
Below is a nitty hand chart you may find useful. All the highlighted hands are the ones you can open-raise with if no one is already in the pot.

Taking AJo as an example, it doesn't become playable until MP2. If the first 3 players folded, you can open-raise with it. If someone in those seats opened the pot, you should fold, because the hands they open in seats 1-3 are better than AJo.
Now look for KTo. That doesn't get highlighted until we get all the way round to the button. It's a decent hand to steal the blinds with, but a terrible hand to call a raise with, as the player(s) in front will be playing better kings.

A few more examples:
* You have QJs in MP3 and the pot is unopened => Fold. There are still several players to act, and they are likely to have a better hand than QJs. You don't want to play a trouble hand out of position.
* You have AJo in the cutoff and there's one limper in EP => Raise. The limper probably has a bad hand. AJo is strong enough to open in the CO, and you want to isolate the bad player while also stealing the blinds. If the first player had open-raised, then you should fold. He is representing a better hand than AJ.
* You have ATs UTG+1 => Fold. It's a pretty hand that is playable in late position, but you're in early position, and there are 7 players still to act. If they have a hand like AK or QQ, they will 3-bet and you'd have to fold anyway, so just open-fold.
* There was a raiser in MP1, a caller in MP3, and you have KJs on the button => Call. If you make top pair, don't get too excited. One of the villains may have a better king. You're really playing this hand to make two pairs, a flush, or a straight. Because there are two other players in the pot and you have the button, you get to see what they do first, and you can compare the pot odds to the chance of hitting your draw.

Last edited by ArtySmokes; 04-21-2012 at 05:38 AM.
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