Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipfoolio
The short v medium v deep stack chart is informative and helpful. Super cool. What do you think about reverse implied with pairs under 88 and non-ace suited cards? 400-500+ bbs? Or perhaps at a certain depth we can find folds with bottom set and smaller flushes?
it's not about a formulaic approach to stacking off, but rather about knowing your villain and understanding what their range is and what they will stack off with.
I played with a ABC rec-fish yesterday who had clear sizing tells. Game was 2/5nl deep stack, effective stacks $3k
typical preflop raises in this game were $25 - $45, he had a clear sizing tell. He would do the ABC fishy l/rr with his AA/KK from virtually any position. So, he was in MP and limped, someone raised to $35 and then he would l/rr blast the pot to $175 because he was pathologically afraid of getting his Aces cracked.
Come flop, he would then blast the pot for double pot and then come turn he would just shove.
Against this sort of player, you can easily stack off 400bb, 500bb, 600bb without fear of getting set vs set since his range is so easily defined and his tendencies are so obvious...
Conversely, lets say you are up against a pretty well balanced and competent villain. This V is in the HJ, and Hero is in LP, UTG+1 raises 5bb, he calls, and we call with 33. Eff stacks 500bb
flop(15bb) 3
9
6
UTG+1 leads out 8bb, Hero calls, V calls
Turn(39bb) Q
UTG+1 bets 20bb, Hero raises to 60bb, V raises to 120bb, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to 200bb, V raises to 300bb, Hero????
Now, this is where typical rec-fish and even thinking players just get stubborn and say, "Well, if he gots it, he gots it, I ain't folding a set..."
But what a minute. Stop and think, what sort of player is V? V is a competent well balanced player. What is his preflop calling range? It should contain a lot of pocket pairs. Is this V ever going to be chasing a runner runner flush like this? Does that make sense? And are there any real playable two pair combos on this board that would likewise call a preflop raise? And would V ever do this with 2 pairs or an overpair?
No.
V's hand in this instance is face up as a set. So we can easily fold our bottom set here if we are not emotionally attached to the hand and are properly reading the situation for what it is.
An interesting thing in poker is that when you are not in the hand and witnessing the action you can easily deduce that this is set over set. But when you are INVOLVED in the hand and have bottom set its amazing how easily emotion takes over and you just end up stacking off 500bb and then saying, "Well, it was a cooler, nothing I could do?"
Really? Nothing you could do? Really? Well, you could fold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipfoolio
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I still find it a little vague to get a specific $ amount to start playing certain levels (3k for 1/2 and 6k for 2/5 iirc) and yet leave the # of bbs bought in for wide open (anywhere from 80 to 200). You may have said just go with 100 I'm not sure. The only reason I bring this up is because I got so much from the op and that part still left me scratching my head. Thanks again.
I'm not quite sure how to address this part without sounding like an ass, so I guess I will apologize up front.
On this site too many players try to treat poker as if its an easy paint-by-numbers formulaic game where you can just follow a checklist and beat the game.
No, poker is more complex than that. You can buy-in for anywhere between 50bb and 200bb and crush the game. Or conversely, you can buy-in for 200bb and still completely lose your ass every time you sit down.
The chart I posted just shows you mathematically correct plays you can make as a function of eff stack sizes (but focused more so on your stack size). You can still buy-in to a game for 40bb and do well if you only adhere to +EV lines, its just that the amount of +EV lines you can take are limited. Or put another way, if you buy-in deeper then you have more +EV lines available which will increase the probability of you having +EV lines which will increase the probability of you doing better as compared to buying in short...
Not to make excuses, but my post was more of a general outline and guide rather than a point by point breakdown for beating the game. If I were to try to address every point, it would result in me writing a book
So instead, I basically say in my steps, "read all stickies, read books, read articles, watch training videos..." and when you do that, then the answers to questions such as "How much should I buy-in for" will be contained somewhere in the links, threads, articles, and books ...
In summary, my post is really more of an outline and guide and not a point-by-point breakdown for beating poker. Poker is more complex than that hence my opening spiel about the complexities of poker