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Is this close or am I being a station Is this close or am I being a station

09-28-2021 , 04:52 PM
BB: 184.5 BB
UTG: 111.5 BB
MP: 107.5 BB
Hero (CO): 100 BB
BTN: 119 BB
SB: 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 3c 3d
UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB, fold, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 8 BB

Flop : (23 BB, 2 players) 6c 5h 4c
SB bets 17 BB, Hero calls 17 BB

Turn : (57 BB, 2 players) Td
SB bets 73 BB and is all-in, fold

SB wins 54.5 BB

This is 2nl. I chose to flat preflop because I think people are not 3 betting enough at this stake so I wanted to see a cheap flop. I think 10BB is an undersized squeeze and plus the fact that people are not squeezing enough, so his range is probably really strong so I can get paid when I do flop a set. I called the big bet on the flop because I thought I have enough equity. I did the calculated the pot odds and I need about 30% equity on the flop to call. if he has an overpaid like AA or KK I only have 22%-26% depending on if he has a club. After the hand when I look at it, I realized that if his strategy is to shove any non-club turn, I don't realize my equity because I don't get to see the river. So am I just supposed to fold the flop? What if instead of 33, I have Ax of clubs? What if it's a combo draw like Ac3c? If there are any blatant errors in my though process, please point them out, I greatly appreciate it.
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-28-2021 , 06:55 PM
when you're talking about the close decision, you mean to call the 3b pre, right?
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-28-2021 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour
when you're talking about the close decision, you mean to call the 3b pre, right?
No sir, I'm talking about calling the flop.
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-29-2021 , 07:10 AM
You'll find that at these micro levels when people find the raise button they have really good cards.

Don't chase thin value at a 1 cent / 2 cent table. Fold those low pocket pairs to any resistance and play a few more tables if you have to...it's easier to just let him have the 2 cents and play another hand.
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-29-2021 , 08:58 AM
IMO the Flop is an EASY Fold.
Based on the action you are probably facing a Large Over Pair.
In the event that the jerk has 78 you are basically drawing dead unless you get 3 3 runner runner for quads.

In general ( In any hand ) if you have to call a Large flop bet with nothing more than 4th pair its time to fold the tent
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-29-2021 , 10:00 AM
Although that actual odds for set mining are a little better than 8 to 1, you really need to 'discount' (actually 'mark up') the smaller pairs since you will get coolered more often even if you hit a set. Some Players look to as high at 20 to 1 with 22-44 pp. If you call 8 you need to stack this opponent to claim around 13 to 1 .. so that's not bad, but you will probably find a general concensus that leans away from set mining when HU and/or needing to call a 3-bet to do so.

IMO your statement is all over the map. If Players aren't 3-betting enough, then you already know this is a strong range .. but you didn't see a 'cheap' Flop either. You then suggest that this is not a strong range by bringing the squeeze into play. So is it 'not enough' or is it a squeeze? And then you suggest that most any squeeze is strong as well.

Regardless of squeeze or strong you are almost always forced to fold a very high percentage of Flops to C-bets. I agree that the stronger the range the more likely you get paid off since if you open the squeezing range then both of you have to connect with the Flop in order to get paid 'in full'.

Although the Flop looks attractive it's really way overpriced to continue. How often are your 3's good to hit a set now? You have to worry about 44-66 and 88 while 77 holds two of your outs. And you're drawing to the bottom of the straight. You are holding 3c, but that's only a small contributor to floating here.

This is a long way to agreeing that the 'close' decision here is PF, but for most it wouldn't be close at all .. and the Flop is a fold without lots of intel on your opponent. GL
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-29-2021 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarri
IMO the Flop is an EASY Fold.
Based on the action you are probably facing a Large Over Pair.
In the event that the jerk has 78 you are basically drawing dead unless you get 3 3 runner runner for quads.

In general ( In any hand ) if you have to call a Large flop bet with nothing more than 4th pair its time to fold the tent
I get your point, but it’s not true that you need 3-3 runner runner. A 3 with a 4,5 or 6 would give hero a boat and beat the straight, so his equity against that combo is not as low as you imply (still pretty low, of course)
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-29-2021 , 11:36 AM
@stremba ok we both agree it is Highly Likely he is WAY behind and the Flop is an Easy fold
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09-29-2021 , 11:44 AM
@stremba PS Ace 3 is NOT a clean out. Look at the action. I already said this guy could be facing a Large Pair.
IF the other guy holds AA
A3 gives villan a Boat of AAA 33 vs 333AA
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-29-2021 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarri
@stremba PS Ace 3 is NOT a clean out. Look at the action. I already said this guy could be facing a Large Pair.
IF the other guy holds AA
A3 gives villan a Boat of AAA 33 vs 333AA
You misread my post. 3 plus any card that pairs the board would beat a straight. The original claim was that if V had 78, hero would need precisely two threes to make quads to win. 3/4, 3/5, or 3/6 would win for hero (order irrelevant), not just 3/3.
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-29-2021 , 01:15 PM
Yes ok. Still an aweful flop call. We can agree
On that
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09-29-2021 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Although that actual odds for set mining are a little better than 8 to 1, you really need to 'discount' (actually 'mark up') the smaller pairs since you will get coolered more often even if you hit a set. Some Players look to as high at 20 to 1 with 22-44 pp. If you call 8 you need to stack this opponent to claim around 13 to 1 .. so that's not bad, but you will probably find a general concensus that leans away from set mining when HU and/or needing to call a 3-bet to do so.

IMO your statement is all over the map. If Players aren't 3-betting enough, then you already know this is a strong range .. but you didn't see a 'cheap' Flop either. You then suggest that this is not a strong range by bringing the squeeze into play. So is it 'not enough' or is it a squeeze? And then you suggest that most any squeeze is strong as well.

Regardless of squeeze or strong you are almost always forced to fold a very high percentage of Flops to C-bets. I agree that the stronger the range the more likely you get paid off since if you open the squeezing range then both of you have to connect with the Flop in order to get paid 'in full'.

Although the Flop looks attractive it's really way overpriced to continue. How often are your 3's good to hit a set now? You have to worry about 44-66 and 88 while 77 holds two of your outs. And you're drawing to the bottom of the straight. You are holding 3c, but that's only a small contributor to floating here.

This is a long way to agreeing that the 'close' decision here is PF, but for most it wouldn't be close at all .. and the Flop is a fold without lots of intel on your opponent. GL
I probably misunderstood the definition of squeeze. I just meant that I think his 3betting range is strong, so I'm not too worried about 44-88. The rest makes a lot of sense tho and I now understand that the flop should be a clear fold. Thanks for the reply
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-29-2021 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarri
IMO the Flop is an EASY Fold.
Based on the action you are probably facing a Large Over Pair.
In the event that the jerk has 78 you are basically drawing dead unless you get 3 3 runner runner for quads.

In general ( In any hand ) if you have to call a Large flop bet with nothing more than 4th pair its time to fold the tent
OK, I get it now that my hand is too low equity to continue facing a big flop bet. But I also wanted to ask what if I ran into similar situation with say Ac3c, will that hand be justified to call the flop?
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09-30-2021 , 03:38 AM
No, that hand would be justified to jam the flop
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
09-30-2021 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecdabggfc
OK, I get it now that my hand is too low equity to continue facing a big flop bet. But I also wanted to ask what if I ran into similar situation with say Ac3c, will that hand be justified to call the flop?
Its sounds like you should probably read a poker book or two that teaches you the rudiments of poker.
I would reccomend "winning low stakes poker" by Lee Jones

As for the question above ? Do you know how to count outs ?
Ac 3c on THAT board gives you 20 outs albeit not all 20 are clean outs.
then do you understand the 2 x 4 rule ?
with 20 outs and 2 streets to go you are 4 x 20 = 80% to hit one of your
outs by the river.
So I agree with what Six advised. Yes this is a Jam
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09-30-2021 , 10:47 PM
ok, thanks
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
10-01-2021 , 12:19 AM
Keep it simple and try to think like this:

UTG will open tight and now the SB decides to 3bet against the UTG player as well as against the CO player (you). The SB knows that UTG has strong hands and still decides to 3bet him AS WELL as against the CO.

It is safe to assume that SB has a strong hand, right?

If you agree, then how happy are you with calling 33 when SB has a strong hand?

The mistake is already preflop. Work on fixing this issue because discussing about the flop makes no sense anymore since you should not be in such spot.
Is this close or am I being a station Quote
10-01-2021 , 03:00 PM
@ecda I have to agree with what Basic said.
70% of poker is making the right and wrong decisions before the flop even happens.
If you want to become a better player the FIRST thing to study up on is WHEN you should be folding calling or raising pre flop.
It is also SUPER importent to know WHY you are making the choices you are making.
If the action goes raise, 3 bet, 4 bet before it even get to me I am often Happy to Fold my pocket 99. If the action goes bet, call, call, call I am happy with a call that closes the preflop action. Same Cards Different Choice Based on the story being told by the bets before it came to me. THAT is what you need to study FIRST.
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