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Calling a donk Calling a donk

02-03-2017 , 03:36 PM
So it's a 0.25, 45-player tourney, I'm practising reads a lot at the moment. Near the beginning of the game.

Folds to BU, he raises 2.75BB, SB folds, Hero on BB calls with 56o

Flop: A 5 2 (rainbow)

Hero checks, BU bets 3BB, Hero calls

Turn: 10

Hero checks, BU bets 4BB, Hero calls

River: 10

Hero checks, BU shoves (2x pot), Hero calls

My reasoning was, who bets flop and turn with calls, then shoves with an Ace or a 10. If they want value for anything, they bet some of the pot to induce a call. This seems a really really obvious attempt to get me to fold. QQ etc check back in case I'm holding an Ace (right?), a set of 2s never shoves having made the boat on the river. Plus, this is $0.25, and a lot of donks are around trying to win every pot.

I was right, he was holding QJ! But was it the right analysis and therefore call?
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02-03-2017 , 03:44 PM
Why are you calling PF a small pot.... to play OOP with 6 high?
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02-03-2017 , 03:50 PM
Haha. Mabye it's because I'm not sure why I shouldn't! (I'm fairly new to poker, hence the small stakes)

I also figured I've got 1.75BB to put in a 5+BB pot


As for the call though, is there any way he's trying to get me to call there? The only answer I could find was NO, and so I figured I was ahead
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02-03-2017 , 04:02 PM
He may be shoving for one of a few reasons. One is he has nothing and wants you to fold. Another is he has very little and wants you to fold - but his little is better than your little. Another is he has a weak ace and hopes maybe you will fold a better ace. Another is he has the nuts and thinks you have already called 2 streets you probably will call so he wants you to call.

You happened to nail it the time he had air - but most of the time that won't be true. The other thing to consider is that it is near the beginning of the tournament. If you call and it turns out he was bluffing, you still don't win any money. You improve your chances to win money, but you are still a long way from a win. But if you call and are wrong, you are out of the tournament. In other words, your risk is great and your reward is not.
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02-03-2017 , 04:12 PM
Cool - thank you!!! Hadn't thought about those possibilities, I will carry on working!
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02-03-2017 , 06:27 PM
On this particular run out, I really like the river call. The only mistake you made was calling preflop. Everything else was well played.
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02-03-2017 , 06:45 PM
hahah. i'm not very good so i'm definitely taking that!! thanks.

Why do you disagree with VBAces? I thought it was a fairly easy call given what was at stake (relatively........... $0.25 isn't the biggest tournament you can sign up to), but I can see VBA's point, and I would think more next time about it for sure and consider those possibilities.

How can you tell a steal from a 'value raise', and then during the streets tell bluffing versus value betting/ protection? It seemed to me like obvious play, but then he might have had an Ace and was playing like he was stealing/ bluffing... However at $0.25 I'm discounting that level of thought in his game
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02-03-2017 , 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #41tomp
hahah. i'm not very good so i'm definitely taking that!! thanks.

Why do you disagree with VBAces? I thought it was a fairly easy call given what was at stake (relatively........... $0.25 isn't the biggest tournament you can sign up to), but I can see VBA's point, and I would think more next time about it for sure and consider those possibilities.

How can you tell a steal from a 'value raise', and then during the streets tell bluffing versus value betting/ protection? It seemed to me like obvious play, but then he might have had an Ace and was playing like he was stealing/ bluffing... However at $0.25 I'm discounting that level of thought in his game
His line basically indicated a set or air. He could have been over playing an ace, but that is unlikely when he shoves. Based on the dry board, he thought that you had an ace so he jammed to get you to fold. You didn't post the suits, but as played, I would expect a good player to have picked up backed door equity on the turn. For example, let's say that he had QcJc, if the flop had one club and then the turn was the 10 of clubs, I would expect the same line from the villain. Once the river bricked, he has to turn some of his busted draws into three barrel bluffs. I don't even think that twos full jams there, so he's rep ping aces full or a busted backdoor combo draw (flush draw and gut shot ).
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02-03-2017 , 07:15 PM
as a rule of thumb, majority of massive overbets you'll face at the low stakes will be with the nuts or near nuts. Everyone saw Rounders, where the hero says "bad players make strong bets when bluffing, and weak bets when they have it" - they don't want to be bad players, so they do the opposite
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