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Originally Posted by Kelvis
There's a difference between enjoying the competition and being a winning player at 2NL and expecting to make a living from poker and only playing for that sole purpose. If you attempt to play professionally you're going to be disappointed while if you want to just crush micro stakes then you're more likely to succeed.
It is strange to me how poker changes over the years. I started playing in the late 90's. By the time I started playing in Vegas on vacation the Bellagio was open, but Matt Damon told me to play at the Mirage.
It was a few tables of degens. There was certainly the possibility of making a living playing poker in LA and at the B, but there was no widespread idea of doing so. You internet guys came up with the idea that nearly every serious player should want to make a living at it.
Does it make me a hypocrite saying that after playing for income on the internet?
We hit the poker boom where even engineers with good jobs were quitting to play cards because "I make so much more money at poker that I can't justify not doing so." Some of those guys are still playing cards, take DeathDonkey as example of a HS mix and tournament player. This mostly ended with Black Friday in the US. I'm sure some RoW folks still move up the ladder online, but again, in 2009 days you could be 3-6 months from learning a simple strategy to making more than minimum wage playing online.
I'll repeat myself in this one point. The people I've seen over the years doing the transition to playing for income
didn't start from nothing thinking the whole way "poker is a get rich quick scheme". I've played mid-stakes for income that I cared about. Like nearly everyone else I know, I got good enough at poker that it just came out that I could make money doing it. The skill came first, the desire to make $X/hr came after I realized I had done so for a while. Since you can control getting the skill but there's a lot of luck in realizing hourly $, it is better mentally to goal set on things you control.
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I'm not saying you shouldn't try to win or that losing is fun. So you can still play to win, just not on a level that is basically impossible for most people. In fact I also hate people that say "it's just a game" when you beat them. If that is true, why keep score. It's never the winners that say "it's just a game".
That's a mindset. To me, it seems like it comes from 80's movies about Wall Street. The idea that you're a winner or a loser inherently. IRL, you might be an expert at 1 thing or even 2 if you're an amazing savant. You might be decent at a couple more.
Mostly, you suck at everything else. We all do. The idea that you could inherently be a winner and just amazing at everything is part of Dunning-Kruger. Sure, fun people who play hard with their friends and the winners get to rub the faces of the losers in it can be a great time. Every pro golfer thinks you suck at golf. Every F1 driver thinks you are a terrible driver. Etc. "It is never the winners who think..." just ignores the fact that you and everyone you know sucks at nearly everything, once you look beyond your mates. Just like all of us. I suck at everything, other than 1 thing.
There are also bits of entitlement wrapped up this in the poker world. If I sit down in the local 30 game, I'd like to take their money (agree that serious poker is about $ and not that fun for me). I don't care if they think I'm better than they are, as I prefer them to think I'm a lucky bad LAG. As a poker player especially, be concerned about wanting people to think you're good at poker while you beat them. Most people who think this way end up teaching the mediocre players to play better. Nothing frustrates more than a "trying to play good" player teaching class at the table. Talk about sports, the weather, or how even well endowed you are, but actual poker strat is for poseurs.
I know that's not exactly what you said. My response is in part to people who read your words, think they made great sense, and took them to their logical conclusion. I'd respond by, all of us basically suck at everything in the big wide world.