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Basics questions about a PLO2 zoom hand Basics questions about a PLO2 zoom hand

05-11-2020 , 07:26 AM
Hello,
I recently bought the plo book "Strategies to beat small stakes pot-limit omaha" from Matthias Pum, and i'm reading this while playing some hand in between to exercice.

My partypoker skin (bwin.be) doesn't let me download my hand, so excuse for the formatting.

Infos :

5 handed
100bb deep effective

UTG raise 0.07$
UTG + 1 call
BTN(Hero) call with JT68

Flop : 82T
Check check, Hero bet 0.15$ in 0.24$ pot.
UTG call UTG+1 fold

Turn 82T J
UTG check
Hero bet 0.34$ in 0.54$ pot,
UTG raise to 1.54$ (pot now 2.42$, UTG have 0.24$ behind)
Hero goes all in.

Please comment my reasonning :
1) I was at the sizing post flop chapter, and i bet flop-turn 2/3 pot because the board is wet. (I didnt even realized turn the straight was in because of that lol)
2) when he raise me, i consider that i playing for T J 8 and a least a flush.
3) Is my calculation correct ?
When he raise me, on the turn, i have 1.55$ behind, the pot is 2.42$ and he got 0.24$ left.
Therefore the ratio is 1.55:2.68, therefore i win 1.55 of 4.23 time, and i need 36%+ equity.
4) M i too loose PF ? My strategy is to be absolute nut because of rake except on the BTN, because there is so much bluffing opportunities there.

I play 8s, Ts, Js, + the spades ==> (2+2+2+9 cards) = 15/40 = 37.5%

So as played, i conclude that my call turn is ok ( fold equity so i consider he pushed, altought technically i shoved)

Now, is check-call superior to bet-call ? I think so afterwards.

Can i analyze my futures hands like that or my logic is flawed ?

(He had Q8K9, river 2 i won, but not the point ofc)

Thank for taking the time !
Basics questions about a PLO2 zoom hand Quote
05-11-2020 , 08:23 AM
Pre and flop seem fine, would check turn
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05-11-2020 , 08:33 AM
Check-call i guess ?
Hypothetically, if the same river come, i kinda have to call now with my middle flush ?
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05-11-2020 , 08:43 AM
I haven't checked the pot odds calc to see exactly how much equity you need, but I'd be surprised if you have 36% equity against the range that villain check-jams with, unless he's really crazy.
You're losing to straights and sets, and could also be dominated by some FDs, so it's probably only a two-outer jack on the river that guarantees a win.

I'm not a PLO expert by any means, but I think the turn bet is fine, as you have a lot of equity vs his check-calling range (overpairs, Jx, Tx, combo draws), but probably have to fold this hand vs a check-jam, and just call with stronger stuff like straights, sets and top two that also has a nut flush draw.
Basics questions about a PLO2 zoom hand Quote
05-11-2020 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maqant
Check-call i guess ?
You are in position, so your option is to check behind. You can’t check/call.

When you’re calculating your outs, why do you include spades but not diamonds? They both make you a J-high flush. The fact that he would make a better diamond flush is irrelevant because you don’t know that yet. But that’s something that you obviously have to account for when you give him a range.

At the end of the day, the decision just boils down to his range. If that range includes enough hands that are just straight + 1 pair (or something comparable) you probably have a call. If most of his straights also include a flush draw, that would change. Looks like Arty disagrees, but I don’t see many overpairs check/calling that turn unless they have a nut flush and I don’t think many sets check/call the flop to check/raise the turn unless they also have a draw. To me it looks like mostly straights and stuff like SD + one/two pair.
Basics questions about a PLO2 zoom hand Quote
05-11-2020 , 10:57 AM
That we block almost all of the sets is kind of important there as well
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05-11-2020 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
You are in position, so your option is to check behind. You can’t check/call.

When you’re calculating your outs, why do you include spades but not diamonds?
Because i was guessing on "feeling" he probs had a better flush draw than one of mine lol.

Your question make me realize that's a complete hand-dependant though and completely fishy way of thinking omaha.

Its crazy, i was not realizing how clueless i was until i began to read some ressources
Basics questions about a PLO2 zoom hand Quote
05-12-2020 , 11:15 AM
PLO equities are so crazy. Blocking sets certainly helps, as sixfour noted.
Even against villain's actual hand (a straight with a diamond draw that's better than hero's), hero still has 35% equity, so maybe the stack off is fine after all. You've got as much as 45% equity vs AAKK double-suited in diamonds and spades, if villain takes that odd line with that monster combo. :/
Basics questions about a PLO2 zoom hand Quote
05-12-2020 , 07:30 PM
I think you'd be best posting in the omaha forum where people have a better understanding of how omaha works.

This hand is pretty close preflop - it (along with all the other well connected JTds hands like JT98ds, JT87ds) are 3bet (and call 4bs) according to FTO but that also assumes you have FE. At these stakes, almost certainly no one is folding pre but you have a hand that plays well postflop and benefits from folding out some strong fd hands from the blinds that might fold to 3bets (crap like A632dd will prob call in bb but fold if you 3bet). You also can be pretty confident that the coldcaller won't 4bet since that almost never happens (and if it does its crappy aces) and the preflop raiser will rarely 4bet correct (almost all his 4bets will be aces).

Post flop is fine although i'd bet bigger on the flop. I don't expect the original raiser to checkcall me with a set on this draw heavy board, so worse case scenario is he has a turned a straight. We can't just assume he has backup to go with this, and against straights we are ~50% to win and he'll have a bunch of worse hands that'll check/call.

edit - I see in your calculations you just did his hand vs your hand. You'd be much better putting him on a range otherwise you might run into situations where you make mistakes based on bias against specific hands (either running into maniacs and getting it in really light in spots that are typically bad, or running into tops of ranges and making bad folds in the future).

Last edited by TwistedEcho; 05-12-2020 at 07:36 PM.
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