UTG raises 1xs the bb utg1 calls I pot with KK everybody else folds utg folds utg1 calls with J9 suited and flops hits q8k i push all in and he stills calls and the turn is a blank and the river is a 10. he said he had pot odds to call???? this was in a $22 stt.

Yeah it sucks and no he didnt have the odds, assuming you shoved a reasonable amount.

doesnt really matter if he had pot odds to call, thats why its a bad beat.

also depends on how far in the tourney what his stack size was relative to yours.

even if he doesnt have pot odds to call but he has a chance of hitting the ten he may Want to call in order to knock you out of tournament, knowing that even if he does lose he still has plenty of chips to stay in.

Post the actual hand next time. There's too much missing information to give you any real advice here.

+1.

Use Holdem or PT thanks

Wow, three paragraphs, and each one of them COMPLETELY wrong!

It does matter about pot odds. If there was 1000 in the pot,and he called an all in bet of a dollar, he has odds to call (and you gain, and want him to fold). Assuming you had some reasonable bet, he almost certainly didnt have odds to call. Hence, you wanted him to call, and over the long run, you gain, and he loses.

Ironically, you would gain more (usually) by making a pot commiting bet on the flop, then shove any turn, rather than an allin on the flop. Call it the 'installment plan'

Stack size relative to one another is one of the most overestimated thing in tourneys, particularly mtt. (disclaimer- the following does not apply to sattelites, or stt, particularly the bubble). If you totally ignored the stack sizes, but just concentrated on the effective stack sizes, you would be much better off. The only time it really counts is when you are kindof at the final table, and say 4 big stacks get it all in , and you are the smallest, and you (correctly) fold AA preflop

The last paragraph is total crud. No good player will call a bet that is ev 'on the chance that he catches his gutter to knock you out'. He may SHOVE his gutter on you, hoping mainly that you fold!. Good players weild their big stacks by making the bets, and forcing the action on the others. Calling big bets with cruddy draws is an atrocious way of playing nlhe tourneys

Absolutely horrible.....

1) Pot odds help you make +EV moves. Calling with a gutshot with horrible odds, that was a horrible play.

2) Doesn't matter how far they are in the tourney. Unless he has him crushed in chips and hes getting a great price theres no reason to call his shove.

3) again, not knowing the structure/blinds/chip stacks.... just gross.

1) pot odds don't matter.
If I got 5k in stack.. pot is 100 and someone bets 100..then it's 2-to-1 to me on a gutshot.. well I take it anyday, pot odds don't matter.
If I got 5k stack, on flop and w/ flushdraw pot is 10k (blinds 50/100), someone bets 5k.. it's 3-to-1 to me. Well I got odds, but I don't take it, cuz again pot odds don't matter.

WOW you don't really think a lot when you write do you?

Does not appear to me you're the one thinking here. Or am I supposed to figure out of thin air which part of my statement you're refering to or what you find disputable 'bout it?

I was in no way giving advice apparently you guys did not read OP post. He was asking why the guy called hoping for a ten, i gave 3 examples of possible reasons why someone would call him. i also stated that yes this was a bad beat as OP had odds to win....

In what way was my post wrong or misleading relative to the OP's questions?

Your post had three statement in it, all of which on a poker thinking level were somewhere between really bad and horrendously attrocious.

Your post read like really bad advice from someone who has no idea, rather than explaining the thinking of a ******ed fish, hence, my criticism


Rm11s post was similarly bad. However, he has the correct play, but gives really bad reasoning that 'pot odds dont matter'. He is thinking of stacking the player with his gutter, and looking at the money behind. He is considering implied odds, which sometimes trump pot odds

Thought the game in question was STT, which is in a way similar to mtt, we ain't speaking a cash game here. I provided 2 examples, where pot odds don't matter. The fact is that, in cash games they do, because your winnings are dependant on pot odds directly. (getting good odds = ev+, getting bad odds = ev-).

But you can't obviously play mtt, and stt, same way you play cash game. The goal here is to get into the money. Not just make plays that seems to be profitable in cash games.

As for our misunderstanding. The catch is in the fact that we're trying to judge a certain play without knowing anymore details of the situation it was made in.

Infromation is really everything.
- Op could have been shortstacked so much in relation to the caller, that the villaion did have odds to call.
- Villain's J9 could be of a suit and he could be not only chasing straight but flush also.
- Op could be seen as very aggressive and just taking a shot at the pot, which if combined with above again justifies the call, even if odds wouldn't be proper.

Wow, from your first post i thought you were stupid, now i fully understand just how ******ed you are.

1) The differences bw cash, stt, and mtt are usually miniscule, bubble situations excluded

2) Pot odds ALWAYS matter, as do implied odds. You have minimal understanding of either, hence your dumb posts


3) We do not have a misunderstanding. I am right, your entire posts are filled with vast inaccuracies and stupid reasoning

4) You also need to consider what happened preflop. ie if there was say 1000 in the pot on the flop, and he only had to call a dollar, then on the flop, he made a good call, however, that says that he made atrocious call pre, with a junk suited connector , hence the bad bead remains

5) nobody seems to have picked up that if the utg had the intention of calling, he should have shoved, in the hope of folding out jj-88

Op, in future, dont shove with a set with a psb behind, just get it in over 2 streets

rm11, read some books, and try to realise that there are people with vastly more knowledge than yourself, and most of your knowledge of the basics are majorly ******ed

I read a lot of book on poker and I know very well how all the potodds, implied odds, expressed odds, reversed implied odds and all the stuff works. But most of these books are based on wrong conceptions of playing a tournament poker. The ever present sole mathematical reasoning is wrong far too often.

If the difference between cash and mtt/stt seems minuscule to you, then it just proves you've no idea about how big it actually is and how much of a different approach you must take to play in one or another.

And why are you talking 'bout UTG? OP was in MP the way he described it and raised the pot. You don't know what UTG was holding and if he was planning to come over the top w/ his holding if someone raises. As nobody has ever been provided any info on what was the situation at the table like. Your assumption is a joke.

Flush beat out by full house

full house beat out by four of a kind


KK beat by AA



AQ beating AK

stuff like this occurs regularly on Fulltilt