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April Beginners Bankroll Thread April Beginners Bankroll Thread

04-25-2012 , 06:49 PM
Say we have an early raiser and a MP 3better. Is anyone happy to throw away AK?
04-25-2012 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo9
Say we have an early raiser and a MP 3better. Is anyone happy to throw away AK?
I get in a few of these situations and I normally just bin it unless I have some solid stats or reads on villain, it's a higher variance style and not even sure if it's +EV. I actually get in more trouble with QQ/JJ in these spots because I can't fold a big pair to a 3bet but I hate 4betting them so I normally call and end up having absolutely no idea where I am in the hand.
04-25-2012 , 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad0x00
nikachu's video is not relevant to micros. Are we seriously considering not 3betting AK? So what and why should we be 3betting? cause according to Nikachu and his oft quoted vid, AA/KK only.
No. His video unfortunately only spends a total of 5 seconds discussing polarization and if you blink you miss it. That clip is also only a short part of an hour long video discussing the issue in more detail. The example he uses of spots where 3betting AK is bad is exactly when villain opens UTG/MP with a tight range. For looser ranges like a button steal he changes the example to AJo (because 3betting AK vs a steal is much more profitable than vs UTG).

The thought process he outlines is simple and works for whatever hand you have:

- Does villain call with worse?
- Does villain 4bet with worse, for value or as a 4bet bluff?

If the answer is "no" or "not often" then we should consider flatting hands instead if they have postflop value. If villain folds a ton to 3bets then we can 3bet ATC and profit, but we'd rather do this with hands that have no real equity so that we can profit from as wide a range as possible.
04-25-2012 , 09:49 PM
Hey guys,

So i use to play at stars a bit then took a few years off after I lost my mind and lost my entire 2k bankroll in a night.
I play poker purely for fun and cashed in for $250 the other month and built it up a little bit since then.
I play 50nl and was wondering what type of bankroll i need to play it comfortably?
04-25-2012 , 09:56 PM
At least 1k for 50NL - but thats with moving down if you lose a couple of BI's.

Also,

I've slept on it, withdrew a small portion of my roll (only a couple of hundred) - read a few threads regarding HUSNG Turbo/Hyper turbo downswing - and it seems that 20 BI swings do happen quite often (More with hypers) and up to 30+ for turbos also can happen when your doomswitched.

So current roll - 1.6k.

Gotta grind it out I think, Will ONLY play 10NL rush until the end of the month - then move up to 25NL or move back to HUSNG turbos. Will need to study more before this (I.e read mers ebook then grind through a couple of videos)

Dunno yet, but my hourly will be so much higher playing HUSNG (even though worse variance) compared to 10NL/25NL.

I mean, 4-5bb/100@ 10NL = $5/hour or something (Assuming 1k hands) while I can probably realistically make 1-1.5BI's.Hour @ $15 + move up to the $30's and make more.

I dunno, more food for thought IMO>

Last edited by enprinte; 04-25-2012 at 10:06 PM.
04-25-2012 , 10:22 PM
Yeah I just find the games so terrible at 25nl. They just seem to check call everything.

Might have to tighten up and drop down.

ta
04-26-2012 , 03:03 AM
learn to assign a specific 4bet-range, raise-falt and raise-fold range to villains, and work out the EV of 3betting AK instead of trying to come up with general rules:

``UTG opens? lol don't 3bet AK.''
``MP opens? Always 3bet/5bet/push AK''
``lol you open AK and SB 3bets you? just push''
04-26-2012 , 05:25 AM
if they check call everything, merge your range and take them to value town
04-26-2012 , 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad0x00
but Arty, you do want him to get all in with AK, QQ, AQs etc...You are missing value by not raising KK from MP vs an EP raise.
Not at all. Let's say UTG is nitty and has TT. He opens for 3bb. I have KK in the CO. If I 3-bet to 12bb, villain usually folds. I win just 3bb plus the blinds. He's never stacking off TT pre-flop for 100bb is he? If I call, we see a flop and there's 7.5bb in the pot. Flop comes Qxx and villain c-bets 5bb. I can either call or raise. Whatever action I take, villain is never putting another cent in the pot without a set. So by flat-calling, I win his pre-flop bet AND his c-bet. Ergo, there is more value in seeing a flop with the best hand, rather than 3-betting and only winning the dead money.
If I 3-bet KK and villain has QQ-AA, then he shoves and we stack off. We chop the pot, but lose to rake. If villain only 4-bets KK and AA, then I'm crushed every time he has aces.

Villain's UTG range is so narrow that his cards are essentially face up if we see a flop. If the flop comes ace high and villain checks, then he's usually on KK-TT or worse. I can then bet with AK and win with the worst starting hand. Sometimes he'll check pocket kings on Axx and I can win by betting with ATC. It's win win!
Look at it this way: If you open UTG with JJ/QQ etc, the last thing you want is for someone in position to call and see a flop. You don't know where you're at, and they can win the pot with the worst hand. So turn the tables! By calling UTG's raise, we have control of the hand. We can lose the minimum (it's not a 3-bet pot) but also profit with a worse starting hand. And if we flop a set and villain can't lay down his overpair, we win a stack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad0x00
nikachu's video is not relevant to micros. Are we seriously considering not 3betting AK?
Against tight players, Tags in EP, and unknowns, flatting is my preferred line. I tend to only 3-bet AK against aggrodonks and shortstacks that are likely to call/shove with worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo9
Say we have an early raiser and a MP 3better. Is anyone happy to throw away AK?
Yep. I see people cold 4-bet shoving AK constantly on Stars full ring 2NL and losing their stacks. e.g. UTG opens, MP 3-bets, the 10/5 nit in the big blind shoves with AK. UTG folds, MP calls with aces or kings and crushes AK. Easy game. The guy with AK thinks it's a cooler, but it's not. The shove was bound to be called by a hand that beat it.
04-26-2012 , 07:15 AM
Deposited $50 in February playing nl4 built bankroll up to $200 cashed in bonus and took a shot at nl10 haven't moved down since. March was $100 month and so far April is looking that way other then -$40 today I'm still at $106 monthly profit. As for improvements in my game I feel as if I've a long way to go.

Bankroll is at $393 was at $435 this morning before my 2hour long session that was kinda ugly.

KK<AA
AK<AA

Then the other 2BI's were me playing absolutely bongos, oh well, easy come easy go I guess. Will play later today just disappointed that two of these BI's were me just being a monkey and should've been avoided.

I'm in CO with A6s and rather aggressive reg 3x MP I 3bet he min4bets bets me and I call T65r board c/c turn 3 he bets I call, I seriously put him on a missed broadway, river T he shoves I call he has AA and that's how the third buy-in went. I'm disgusted that I did something like this and felt embarrassed that the table seen. It made me realize I need to stop fancy play syndrome and stick more to ABC which would've been probably folding to his 4bet if definitely folding to action on flop.

I'm going to purchase PT3 so I can start posting hands and taking part in discussion because I'm tired of just playing in the dark I've been fortunate enough to book winning sessions but it's time to actually learn how to play poker.

Last edited by GenKKenobi; 04-26-2012 at 07:24 AM.
04-26-2012 , 07:19 AM
AK must be the hand I see played badly most often. It' like people can't ditch it no matter what because they expect it to win.
I see villains shove on Qxx type flops with AK up against QQ, stuff like that.
04-26-2012 , 08:15 AM
Yesterday I was all steals and 3bets IP (and from the blinds) and had a good winning day. Today, straight value play, still stealing most of the time. Its a lot easier on my heart thats for sure! Quick Q. Although I think people are 3betting wider/more air from the BTN in zoom than in regular poker, I should still feel comfortable folding AJs, AQo after a 3bet from the BTN when I have opened in MP right? Ive seen 2x my bet, 3x and 4x while opening /holding these two hands ^^ today and folded every time. I think it's right but just looking for a bit of reassurance.
04-26-2012 , 09:30 AM
Was going well, then these two hands so took a break.

I 4bet pre with the intention of shoving or calling a shove. Had hope when I made the flush thinking - even if he has AA, I win as long as he doesnt ... DOH!

    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #12750762

    CO: $4.62 (92.4 bb)
    SB: $6.44 (128.8 bb)
    BB: $7.54 (150.8 bb)
    Hero (UTG): $5.96 (119.2 bb)
    MP1: $16.11 (322.2 bb)
    MP2: $6.31 (126.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with K K
    Hero raises to $0.20, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $0.40, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.15, MP2 raises to $6.31, Hero calls $4.81

    Flop: ($11.99) J 9 4 (2 players)
    Turn: ($11.99) 2 (2 players)
    River: ($11.99) 6 (2 players)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $11.99 pot ($0.50 rake)
    Final Board: J 9 4 2 6
    Hero showed K K and lost (-$5.96 net)
    MP2 showed A A and won $11.49 ($5.53 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


    This one was weird. I didnt want to 3bet pre because Im probably going to fold to a 4bet. Got it all wrong on the river where I thought the guy in the blinds was probably calling along with A made straight or a set. damnit !

      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #12750772

      CO: $5 (100 bb)
      SB: $7.03 (140.6 bb)
      BB: $7.86 (157.2 bb)
      UTG: $8.09 (161.8 bb)
      MP1: $9.37 (187.4 bb)
      Hero (MP2): $5 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q Q
      UTG folds, MP1 raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, CO folds, SB calls $0.18, BB folds

      Flop: ($0.65) 5 3 J (3 players)
      SB checks, MP1 bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45, SB calls $0.45

      Turn: ($2) 4 (3 players)
      SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

      River: ($2) 3 (3 players)
      SB checks, MP1 bets $2, Hero folds, SB calls $2

      Spoiler:
      Results: $6 pot ($0.25 rake)
      Final Board: 5 3 J 4 3
      SB showed A J and won $5.75 ($3.10 net)
      MP1 showed Q J and lost (-$2.65 net)
      Hero mucked Q Q and lost (-$0.65 net)



      Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
      04-26-2012 , 09:38 AM
      No-one is slowplaying a set or straight with two flush draws out there. Calling flop is ok because we have position but betting turn is mandatory. As played never folding blank river
      04-26-2012 , 11:23 AM
      I ended a buyin up so it wasnt terrible. I definitely missed out in hand 2. hand 1, maybe Nikachu is right after all..coolers kk 100%
      04-26-2012 , 11:28 AM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by chad0x00
      hand 1, maybe Nikachu is right after all..coolers kk 100%
      You need to watch that video again properly. He did not say fold KK preflop at 6max
      04-26-2012 , 12:35 PM
      The SCOOP low leaderboard prizes include tickets to Micro Millions II events. Not that I'm planning to win the leaderboard, but is there any info yet on when MM II might take place?

            
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