I am totally clueless about Position. Any good threads on two plus two to recommend? Or any poker book that has a good piece about position? (I can always borrow or read it at a bookstore)

Thanks!

Theory of Poker is always the best place to start for fundamentals like this.

Does it have a good section on position or is it scattered all over the place?

I don't happen to have it at the office with me I'm afraid

It covers (chapter by chapter) a number of topics. I do believe position is one of them.

Regardless if this specific topic is covered, it is still THE book for pure poker fundamentals.

Thanks~

I'll go check it out asap.

ThomasKale,

It is good you came here and asked this question. You must learn position. Not knowing about position is knowing what a car is but not how to drive it.

Position in a nutshell is referring to the "order in which players are seated around the table in relation to the blinds".


The Blinds
OK: 1st thing to know is there is a small blind(SB) and a big blind(BB),a forced bet to ensure action in poker.

After the Blinds:EP(Early Position)

The blinds have already been placed and the action will be on the person to the left of the BB or otherwise known as UTG(under the gun) 1st to act, get it? Otherwise known as early position.
The next to act is UTG+2. Then you get to what is called MP(middle postion).

Middle Position:MP (In between the EP and LP players at the table)

These guys will have a slighter advantage since they already know what decisions the first two have decided to do, FOLD,RAISE,LIMP.
But they still have to be understanding that LP(late position)is left to act,which gives you advantages to being last to act on the flop, turn, and river.

****The Later you are in position the more info you have about hand ranges based on early position raisers decisions at the table******
an example would be, someone bringing in a raise from UTG probably has a hand.

The Best Positions:LP(Late Postions)

When you are in LP, there are terms used such as the CO(cutoff) and BTN(dealer button). The CO is to the right of the BTN position. The BTN is to the right of the SB(small blind). The BTN is the best possible position, because you are last to act after the flop comes out and can see what everyone else does who is in the pot.

To recap:
Play extremely tight from EP, and loosen up a little in LP. You want to be able to play your better hands from EP,since you will be 1st to act on every street,(flop, turn, river). In LP, you will be able to see what decisions everyone at the table has made before deciding what to do.
The real key is you want to be "in position" to see how everyone at the table reacts before you make your decisions.

Just a note, the SB and BB act 1st before the EP guys after the flop.
An example: SB, BB, UTG and the BTN are all in a pot, the flop hits and now the action will be in this order,
SB(1st to act)
BB(2nd to act)
UTG(3rd to act)
BTN(4th to act)

See the advantage the BTN typically has after the flop?
Position changes constantly in poker, because the blinds move clockwise around the poker table.

So it is extremely important to analyze and know what position you are in before deciding what to do.

This was a very random and quick response.

Phil gordons Little Green Book talks about this and is an EZ read for a beginner.
This gives you an idea as well:
http://www.pr0crast.com/2+2.NL.Anthology.v1.htm (go to letter f. and read)
actually read the whole thing.
http://www.gambling911.com/online-po...on-040107.html

What exactly do you expect from a chapter in a book covering the topic of position. There are a few obvious things about position in Hold'Em:

1.) Late is better, because you will make decisions acting later than other players you will have more information when the time comes to decide what to do. Remember, that poker is a game of information. The better the info you have, the better can you play!

The most obvious consequence of 1 is

2.) You can loosen up a bit your starting-hand requirements on the button (when opening the pot), because there are less players behind you (on the button only the blinds), so the probability, that one of them is holding a monster is smaller. AND in the betting rounds from the flop on you will be last to act

Since all players know 2 there comes in

3.) If a player siting in a position earlier than you opens the pot with a raise your hand-requirements to call (or re-raise) his bet should be tougher. You need a better hand, because even though the player who opened the pot was in earlier position than you he took the risk of many players behind him (this indicates a strong hand) ==> Your hand needs to be really, really good (even though you will have position on him subsequently). Sklansky calls this the gap-concept (man this guy is clever).

There are just the most basic things that immediately passed through my mind, when I read your question, but there is infinitely much to say about position in Hold'Em. The position you play in basically has an influence over the whole course of a hand. All your decisions should take your position as well as that of your opponents into account. So there is no point in writing a single chapter about position. Rather each chapter of a good book will take position into account when discussing things like pre-flop play, betting on the flop, turn and river, semi-bluffing and bluffing etc... I don't actually believe if Sklansky covers position as a chapter in its own (and I'm too lazy to look it up now), but I'm sure reading the book is not a waste of time

wow , thanks for the reply that was as involved as that, must have taken some time to type. Much appreciated because I have no clue about the button and or position preflop, once I"m in a hand usually i can tell who has the power of position but preflop I always forget who goes first after the flop.

I find that if you open on the button you are more likely to be re raised all in over the top because so many know that the button will raise just to steal the blinds in many situations. How does one protect themselves from that play if you are on the button? anyone know? and I will definitely check out the poker theory section... thanks

Stealing the blinds from the BTN and even the CO(known as stealing the BTN) is a pretty standard play. You see if you"open from the button" and everyone has folded to you, and you raise the blinds, the blinds usually fold, however, do not attempt to steal until you understand fully about position. You see stealing is a whole other topic in itself.

Let's suppose you raise from the CO 3 BB's with KJ and the BTN folds, SB shoves, and BB folds. The action is back to you. I easily fold here. This is sometimes a re-steal and sometimes a monster hand, and obviously very read dependent. But a little off topic for this thread.

You have xx and raised preflop. You got one caller.
Flop is three cards.
Would you rather go first or second?
A raiser preflop you call.
Flop is three cards.
Would you rather go first or second?
It took me a while to see how much better you are going second. You can react to the opponent being forced to do something first.
Are you playing tournaments? Positional value decreases as the stacks shorten/blinds go up to the extent that being first to act can be best for the very late stages. IMO anyway.

one of my favorite notes on position comes from Tommy Angelo's article 'Reciprocality'.

Position Reciprocality
Think of every hand of poker. Think of the enormous number of hands played on the internet, and then add to that every hand played in home games and casinos. Now think of that sum total of all hands, broken down to street by street. All those streets. Millions, billions, whateverillions, it's a lot. Now consider this. Every one of those streets has this in common: someone goes first, and someone goes last.

Read the rest on Tommy's site:
http://www.tommyangelo.com
http://www.tommyangelo.com/articles/reciprocality.htm
Be careful though, there's much more than position in that article, you can loose yourself for days...