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ALMOST the nuts against an unknown ALMOST the nuts against an unknown

04-10-2012 , 09:20 AM
I played a hand yesterday where a total unknown raised to 3bb pre from UTG+1. MP+1 and CO called. I called from the BB with K9s because I liked my odds to flushmine with a relatively big pot (all stacks were at least 50bb).

The flop came TJQr and my eyes about popped out of their sockets.

I chose not to donk the flop, the other 3 callers all checked.

The river was another queen. I bet the pot, UTG+1 raised to 3x my bet, the other 2 folded.

How afraid should I have been that he had AK? I have AA-99, AQ and KQ crushed, along with TJ and TQ (but QJ gives him a boat). I could see most villains raising me with just about any of those.

Also, if I were in his shoes and I saw a BB check the flop and then bet the turn, when the turn was a card that was already on the flop, I would think the guy was betting to take down the pot, so raising to call my bluff could be a possibility. Any legitimacy to that?

Seems like an obvious overshove.

Thoughts?
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:42 AM
bet the flop. start building a pot so you can get all in. what was the turn card?
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:46 AM
Fold pre.

Lead flop.

What happened on turn?

How deep are we?
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:47 AM
I'd have donked the flop pretty big to be honest.
AK is possible ofc, but I wouldn't risk giving them a free card.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan
I played a hand yesterday where a total unknown raised to 3bb pre from UTG+1. MP+1 and CO called. I called from the BB with K9s because I liked my odds to flushmine with a relatively big pot (all stacks were at least 50bb).

The flop came TJQr and my eyes about popped out of their sockets.

I chose not to donk the flop, the other 3 callers all checked.

The turn (not the river, sorry) was another queen. I bet the pot, UTG+1 raised to 3x my bet, the other 2 folded.

How afraid should I have been that he had AK? I have AA-99, AQ and KQ crushed, along with TJ and TQ (but QJ gives him a boat). I could see most villains raising me with just about any of those.

Also, if I were in his shoes and I saw a BB check the flop and then bet the turn, when the turn was a card that was already on the flop, I would think the guy was betting to take down the pot, so raising to call my bluff could be a possibility. Any legitimacy to that?

Seems like an obvious overshove.

Thoughts?
Fixed my mistake. The river was a brick (I think it was a 6).

EDITED:
Spoiler:
I overshoved his turn raise. He had AK, I lost. I should have been scared by the paired board - quadas was right, once the second Q hit the turn I'd have been crushed by TT, JJ, QQ even if I HAD a flush.

Last edited by DalTXColtsFan; 04-10-2012 at 10:17 AM.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:59 AM
1. u dont have anywhere near the nuts. you have about the 20th hand away from the nuts.

2. fold pre. "flush mine" is not a term. the odds of flopping a flush is miniscule. the best you can hope for is a flush draw and even then due not having position, there's no good way of playing the draw. you also have an easily dominated hand that can get you into a lot of trouble if a K peels.

3. this is a flop you have to donk. the chances of them checking back hands with equity on that flop is way too high and there are many turn cards you don't want to see.

4. do you mean the turn was a Q?

5. checking back and raising turn is suspicious but it doesn't mean they don't have it. it's weird to check back AK, 2 pair or a set on the flop but it's a possibility. none of the hands you mention are raising you here. it's a very dangerous board and shoving is going to make you go broke. call and proceed with caution.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:59 AM
So he called your shove with AK?
Personallt I would have just bet rather than shoved and folded if he shoved.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan
I have AA-99, AQ and KQ crushed, along with TJ and TQ (but QJ gives him a boat). I could see most villains raising me with just about any of those.
TT-QQ and TQ has you crushed pretty well. Against a range of TT+, AQ+, QJs you are pretty much behind. Add KQ and it evens out a bit, but you're still behind. What was the effective stack between you and UTG+1?

I would've bet that flop. If you give a free card in a multiway pot any 9, T, J, Q or A is really bad for you and K is disastrous.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 10:03 AM
Fold pre, its not even profitable to "flush mine" here with an ace. You are out of position, you have been raised an you wont even have the nut flush if you hit.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 10:47 AM
fold pre
donk flop
donk turn
c/f river if called on turn.

As played, fold river ainec....any raise on the river from an unknown is 99% the nuts at low levels from what my db tells me.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 01:47 PM
what are the odds on flopping a flush again? is it like 2% or something? and a 4 flush (2 in hand 2 on the board) is bout 3.5%. Im sure someone else will know the exact numbers.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote
04-10-2012 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
As played, fold river ainec....any raise on the river from an unknown is 99% the nuts at low levels from what my db tells me.
Yes. Folding to large river bets when you don't have a top hand is rarely wrong at low stakes and could be the leak fix that turns you into a winning player.
ALMOST the nuts against an unknown Quote

      
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