Hi guys,

I'm a newbie and trying to learn a couple of tricks. There is this hand that I just can't seem to understand correctly.

So, I am in MP in a 9-seated table, with T T. I decided to raise 3BB and villain on LP raises to 10.5BB. The blinds fold and I decide to call. With 3:1 I think I have decent odds but maybe I should have raised or folded?

Anyway, the flop is: 8 4 Q. Villain bets half the pot and I decide to raise three times his bet. He calls.

On the turn, comes a 2 and I check. He moves all-in and I fold.

I had no particular read on villain and he is a semi-loose semi-aggressive player from what I know.

Did I play it right or what should I have done different?

What is the purpose of raising the flop when you're going to check/fold the turn?

I raised because I wanted to know where I was in the hand, for value if I was ahead and as a semi-bluff if I was behind (I was the original pre-flop raiser).

You think I should have called? Or folded?

There is information missing from your hand history. Stack sizes matter for a start. Live reads include age, gender, race and general demeanour. Stating pot size on every street and bet sizes is helpful.

If we're less than about 125bb deep I probably fold pre because it's tough to make money OOP against an aggressive player without flopping a set.

I x/f that flop, you can probably peel one but problem is you can't really call down and you are facing at least one more bet from an aggressive player. This is why I fold pre.

Your raise is bad because raising for information is bad. When someone raises me and I'm in position, I call with hands I can continue with but usually all my monsters. So when you raise for information, all you know is I have a hand of some kind. Now what are you going to do? Any convincing bluff requires another barrel, so I'm likely folding draws if I didn't hit and my non-monsters but you're bloating the pot vs. my monsters. This kind of behaviour is typical from a lot of players except most live players call raises wider than I do.

Which brings me to my next point, live players call (flop) raises pretty wide so if you want folds, you have to barrel the turn, which in this case means you need to shove. Pretty nasty spot, though you're hopefully folding out JJ and KQ which is nice.

What you need is a plan. You should have a plan when you call pre, you should have a plan when you call, you should especially have a plan when you raise. Spazzing 30bbs into the middle intending to x/f every time you are called is a pretty bad plan.

Thanks... BTW it was online, not live. What should have been a better plan? Stack was about 100BB for both players.

You are playing into an aggressive player's hands by folding pre and/or folding flop. Might as well get up and go home, or at least table change.

Pre and the flop are both clear as day calls. If we have reads that he overbluffs (which the OP didn't mention, just that he's semi-aggressive) that doesn't mean fold all mid-strength hands early, it means don't fold mid-strength hands at all. Without that read here, just the read that he's more aggressive than average, I would just play fundamentally sound poker and fold my bad hands and continue with my good hands. TT is obviously high enough in our range to continue for at least one street against a half pot bet.

Readless in a live game I don't mind a fold pre, but that's because live players have super nitty 3-bet ranges. In an online game you have to pry this out of my cold dead hands pre. Vilain being aggressive is a reason to CALL, not fold, or even to 4-bet if he's really getting out of line pre.

Yeah online is different, I thought this was live for some reason. I call pre and peel flop. We can't go around folding TT to LP 3bets online. I don't call a lot of 3bets OOP but would probably do say 77 -> TT and AJss, AQss, KQss, something like that.

I haven't played online for a while though so take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks guys...

browni3141: Why do you say it was easy call for preflop and flop? Shouldn't I be afraid after a big reraise that he has a stronger hand (pre-flop) and doesn't it look week only to call the flop? Thanks, still a newbie here.

I just ran in nearly same situation with TT again.

Both 100 BB stack +- and not particular read on the guy (online). EP raised 3BB, MP1 called, and I called. Others folded.

Flop was 4 5 J

MP1 bet 40% of the pot and this time I did as you guys suggested and I called. EP guy folded. We are HU.

Turn is : 4

Villain bets 1/3 of the pot and I call again.

River is : Q

Villain bets 1/4 of the pot and I call again.

He shows JT

Did I play it correctly? I am so used to raise, etc. I thought I was very passive and not sure about calling that river bet with two overcards... but odds seemed good. Maybe I should have folded at the turn? Or just bad luck?

Was this +EV or -EV? I feel like I was getting sufficient pot odds all the way. I used PokerStove to check equity and I was close to 50% until the River where I was at 35%. Was it good?

Thanks!


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I don't know if it's easier to analyze with this data:

PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

CO: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 19.44, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 37)
BTN: 159 BB (VPIP: 13.36, PFR: 11.06, 3Bet Preflop: 7.25, Hands: 220)
SB: 68.5 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 3.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 28)
BB: 110 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
UTG: 149 BB (VPIP: 11.50, PFR: 11.50, 3Bet Preflop: 6.45, Hands: 115)
UTG+1: 52.5 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
Hero (MP): 85.5 BB
MP+1: 48 BB (VPIP: 23.91, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 46)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ts Tc
UTG raises to 3 BB, UTG+1 calls 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop : (12.5 BB, 4 players) 4h 5d Js
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB, fold, fold

Turn : (22.5 BB, 2 players) 4d
UTG+1 bets 7 BB, Hero calls 7 BB

River : (36.5 BB, 2 players) Qh
UTG+1 bets 9 BB, Hero calls 9 BB

UTG+1 shows Jd Td (Two Pair, Jacks and Fours)
(Pre 39%, Flop 96%, Turn 98%)

Hero mucks Ts Tc (Two Pair, Tens and Fours)
(Pre 61%, Flop 4%, Turn 2%)

UTG+1 wins 52.5 BB

Calling on these flops with TT is definitely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raising. You don't have a strong hand but just SDV, so bloating the pot is really not what you're aiming for.


In the second hand, take a note that your opponent is aggressive when he has 'something' but that his betting size kinda tells you how uncertain he is. otT and otR he starts to become unsure of his TPBK and therefore only bets 1/3 and 1/4 of the pot. It's tempting to call these small bets but with no draws, you're practically beaten otT.
Next time, call him down light with TPTK but watch out if his bet sizings are bigger.

Thanks... Sorry for the dumb question, but what does otT mean?

So you think I should have folded on the turn when I saw his bets were very small?

Wouldn't a semi-bluff raise have worked as well, maybe on the river when the Q came?

...

Thanks... sorry I am a newbie

No I just thought it was funny, nothing more.

np