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Old 03-02-2017, 06:03 PM   #1
karpov
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Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

The Venetian and Palazzo recently changed the procedure. Now the machine deal first the 5 cards of the board then the 2 cards of the dealer and after the player's cards. So dealer's hand is not random anymore. I know the machine can sort the cards the way it wants. After this change me and many of my friends been losing for many sessions in a row and the progressive passed the million dollars. Some players complained to the managers but of course they didn't do anything in spite of saying they thought players were right to be suspicious. Can such a big company risk the license and cheat? How can players prove they are cheating. It's all very unclear. Any opinions?
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:40 PM   #2
Neil S
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

How does changing the order of the deal make the cards less random?
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Old 03-02-2017, 07:08 PM   #3
Didace
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

If the machine can sort the cards the way it wants, how does the procedure used matter?
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Old 03-02-2017, 07:46 PM   #4
DrawingDonkey
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

While those shufflers are capable of sorting cards, I can assure you there are no options available that allow the sorting to occur during a game. Unless the Venetian is using a hacked board, which for a publicly traded company seems incredibly unlikely.

I own at least one of pretty much every shuffler out there, so I'm not guessing at what options are available.
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:19 AM   #5
karpov
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S View Post
How does changing the order of the deal make the cards less random?
Before the last 2 cards were for the dealer, so it changes
According to the number of players. Now 6th and 7th
are always dealer's card so it can be programmed to
match the board.
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:50 AM   #6
Tom Ames
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by karpov View Post
Before the last 2 cards were for the dealer, so it changes
According to the number of players. Now 6th and 7th
are always dealer's card so it can be programmed to
match the board.
If you think you are being cheated, don't play there.

There are casinos everywhere.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:07 AM   #7
WaKtickets
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

I read the OP 3x, but I'm still pretty confused. Are you suggesting that the shuffle machine is specifically giving the dealer better cards?
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Old 03-03-2017, 08:58 AM   #8
Lattimer
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaKtickets View Post
I read the OP 3x, but I'm still pretty confused. Are you suggesting that the shuffle machine is specifically giving the dealer better cards?
Yes. Now that the board and dealer cards are first, they can be stacked by the shuffler. Before this change the board/dealer cards came at the end, and because the shuffler doesn't know how many hands it will need to deal out (how many players at the table), it wasn't possible to stack the dealer. Now it is not only possible but also happening. These are the things he is suggesting.
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:43 PM   #9
Neil S
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

It's machine shuffled right?

Why couldn't they program the shuffler for the number of players at the table each hand? It's all wireless right?

I just realized we are assuming it's being reprogrammed each deal anyway, since they're not giving the exact SAME cards each hand. That would be too obvious.
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:40 PM   #10
offTopic
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

Seems like if the dealer's cards are put out first, the possibility exists for additional information to be gained...ah, never mind.

Want to know who's "cheating"? There's a couple of places in San Jose, CA where:
a) You have to pay the California games "ante" of $1/up to $100 wagered per bet
b) They strictly treat the Ante/Blind combo and Trips as separate wagers (so, if you bet $5 each on Ante/Blind and $5 on Trips, you have to pay an additional $2)
c) Flushes pay 6-5 because they don't want to deal with half-dollars in the tray
d) lol
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Old 03-05-2017, 06:32 PM   #11
asymbacguy
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

Interesting post.

For good measure, our idea is to never play any game where a preordered plan cannot be influenced in some way by actual players.

Casinos don't have reasons to cheat but they are there to win our money.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:55 PM   #12
ProfessorSlot
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

Changing the machines procedure does not mean the casino is cheating. Casino have the right to update all their machine so it will not affect their profits. This is normal since other might be so familiar with the machine and keeps on winning.
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Old 03-24-2017, 03:33 AM   #13
ka1z0ku
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

Why the changes? I would never play a in game of poker where they deal the board first. Disgusting.
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Old 04-03-2017, 04:42 AM   #14
Double Down
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Re: Is The Venetian cheating at Ultimate Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by karpov View Post
The Venetian and Palazzo recently changed the procedure. Now the machine deal first the 5 cards of the board then the 2 cards of the dealer and after the player's cards. So dealer's hand is not random anymore. I know the machine can sort the cards the way it wants. After this change me and many of my friends been losing for many sessions in a row and the progressive passed the million dollars. Some players complained to the managers but of course they didn't do anything in spite of saying they thought players were right to be suspicious. Can such a big company risk the license and cheat? How can players prove they are cheating. It's all very unclear. Any opinions?
I'm just freaked out that you've discovered that a machine can WANT something. It's official, Judgment Day has arrived. You should probably inform the people in this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/47...rrive-1538853/
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