To those posting pics, I hate you.. That is all.

I was playing JOB last night and was dealt AAAA2 :-(

ALWAYS seems to happen when playing JOB or BONUS...

I get dealt more 4oak in general playing JOB or BONUS... blah...

I played video poker for the first time last month, so ADDICTIVE!!! I literally had to be pried away from the machine.

Mini TR at the Cosmo:

I decided to try the loss rebate promo for new members last night at the Cosmopolitan. Lose $100 in slots/VP, get $100 in free play.

Signed up for a card, then headed for the $5 JoB machine. Played a few hands and then ended up $25. I was going to take my profits there but in effect I was laying 100 to win 25. Not the odds I was looking at if I was just there to take advantage of the free play promo and make this +EV. So I took my $125 and headed to the high limit room to play the $25 JoB machine. In retrospect, this is probably what I should've done in the first place...just bet 100 on one hand then if I double my money, I walk away. I played one hand then lost.

So I get 100 free play on my account. Now the strategy is to play it very conservatively so you get most of it back. I was gonna go back to the $5 JoB machines until I saw some of the limit holdem heads up machines. I have a bit of a history with these machines when they used to be .5/1 at Red Rock so I tried to use my free play playing 2/4 (Cosmo's lowest levels.) Now what they don't tell you about the FP is that you have to put cash in the machine, activate the FP, then play through. Any coin in is replaced or added by the FP. You can't play directly from the FP balance.

I played like 7 or 8 hands of heads up limit holdem until I realized that I never got the button...WTF! I thought this must have been an effect of the free play being continuously added to your coin total. Because when you first sit down and put money in the machine is designed so that you will always be OOP on your first hand. I took my player's card out and played a couple hands to confirm. Confirmed: I did end up getting the button, sans added free play. Such bull****!

I go back to my bread and butter $5 JoB machine with like $65 in free play left but ended up losing it all. Then I go to my regular spot at Aria to play a few hours of 1/3 NL and ended up busting some donks. All in all an OK night, but still pissed about the limit heads up machine completely and blatantly shooting an angle.

Question: is there any chance that gaming will hear and agree with my complaint about the button going to the machine every time? I understand it's only FP but they're basically changing the rules of the game whenever you get FP.

Any answers?

Bandit: With only $100 why would you play a $5 machine for $25 a push? IMHO you are better off on a $2 machine or $1 machine even if it is not full pay. I don't know the math on this, but chances of getting a full house or a flush in 4 hands are pretty slim.. On $2 machine, you at least have 10 hands to where you can hit some 2 pairs / 3oak's to get some money back...


In response to Tom Ames: Because generally slot machines that may have a 97.4% return, the pay tables are EXTREMELY TOP HEAVY. If you hit a royal on a VP machine one ever 44K hands, you are expected to hit the jackpot on a slot after a lot more pushes of the button if ever!

The way the "math" works on VP, you should get at least a winning hand one out of every 3 hands... The winning hand may be even money... Thats just the way the cards are dealt...

There is nothing like that for a slot though...

plus, they are boring...

Are you referring to the first 100 or the 100 free play? The first 100 you have to gambool it up obviously. The second hundred I intended to play all on the heads up machine but I was kind of steamed about the button thing so I didn't think about playing a worse VP paytable.

Any of it!

Why dump $100 in one shot, when you can loose that first $100 slower over time earning more comp points at the same time...

I don't know the point multiplier there.. but say its 1 point for eery $10 in the machine... you got 10 points for blowing the $100 in one shot...

You could have played 8/5 JoB and put $500 through the machine for 50 points and still got the $100 in replacement play... *$1 VP at 5 bucks a play, playing more hands ending up having $500 coin through"


And as far as earning the $100 back, I'd rather take 40 shots at getting my money back $1 vp would be 40 plays at $5 each after losing your additional $100 you had to put in and the $100 replaced by them...

I dunno... you can do it either way really, but the more overall play that goes through the machine, the better off you are I think....

Actually video blackjack might be the best way to get your monies back if the rules are good. Lower variance too. Damn, why didn't I think of these things beforehand?

Oh well, Tropicana has a similar promo with a rebate of $200, half right away and half a month later.

All of these types of promo's have their little run arounds they make you do... I did one once and never ended up getting back in time to get my re-embursement.

At least these it sounds like if you lose $100 you get $100, rather than having to put $1,000 coin through to get $100...

That may be the way some people might do it but my intention was just to make a quick buck. I don't intend to ever play there again simply because the denoms are too high. Even if I put 5000 through the machine on 100 dollars and the cash back rate is .3% (I think I'm being a little generous here) it's only 15 back on a really bad paytable.

I understand that... but with the $5000 through the machine, you get more comp points in general...

If you have no intention on playing there again, then yeah it makes no sense to put more coin through and accumulate other points...

then at the same time, why lose $100 quick and have to try to fight back and get it..

I think they would agree with you, but I doubt you would get compensated though. I would inform the casino and threaten to take it to gaming at least if you care about others getting screwed over by this.

Speaking of getting screwed over, I was in Vegas the last few days and tried that LHE HU machine at the Rio...bastard ate $100 of my money at 2/4 in less than 15 minutes. I hate to question things being rigged, but this machine hit everything, successfully bluffed me off with king high, anything you'd expect someone with a UB superuser acct to do.

Because I'm guaranteed a loss rebate, I want to win $100+ on the first hand on a game with the highest return and highest variance possible so I'm not really concerned with coin in. I find it comparable to a "free pull" less the house vig on the 100 of free play that you'll have to play through depending on the game. In fact you could probably make the case for 1 pull on a progressive high limit slot machine. You would still stop on any win. So would you pull 33+ times on Megabucks in this case? How would you know when to stop?

I just want the opportunity to have the button for however many hands I didn't have the button while I used freeplay. If they won't give me that then I will seriously consider taking it to gaming.

I need to apologize for this.



From last night, FINALLY!

Congrats! Time to move up to where they respect handpays.

To those posting pics, I hate you.. That is all.





hopefully it works for me too

Did you get a hand pay for the $1,000?

In Vegas there is no hand pay for $1,000 (unless its a $1,XXX progressive royal)...

In California there is a hand pay for $1,000 I find it very annoying...

A month of playing VP, $191,929.75 coin in later I'm only down about 56 bucks for a ROI of 99.97%. This includes everything up until this point except food comps/free rooms/anything that doesn't add to coin in. Also there's some free play I need to go through this month which should give me a slightly positive ROI. Looks like I'm running good!

I've fully switched to NSUD unless I need to go through free play at certain casinos, namely Palms, The M Resort, and Plaza.

Total Buy In = 15,055.75
Total Cash Out = 14,636.35
Total Cash Back = 363.00
Total Coin In = 191,929.75
Total ROI = 99.97%
Estimated Hands = 703794.2 (this includes multi-line games obviously)

Winning Sessions = 32
Avg Win Session = 146.14
Losing Sessions = 27
Avg Lose Session = -188.74
Breakeven Sessions = 1

Net Win/Loss = -56.40
Exp. Win/Loss = -761.96

edit: Oops forgot to subtract the tip-out for the one hand pay. So I'm down 96.40 at this point.

wholly crap, you have 200k coin in. I have about that for the entire year (with no royals) In my area the best JOB we have is 8/5. I was in st louis last week for the harrah's promotion and saw signs above machines for 99% payout. This is the first time I was able to play such a machine. However what I realized was there might be a 9/6 machine but right next to it the machine is 8/5 and on the other side it was 9/5. Then I saw an 8/6. It was so weird that in one bank of games there were 4 different pay tables. In PA there is 8/5 or 7/5 and they are not mixed among each other.

is it standard etiquette to tip the guy giving the hand pay?

you say this excludes comps. how much did you make in comps? do you do this this for fun and try to make your hobby as less expensive as possible or are you doing it for profit?

Harrah's St. Louis clearly points out the highest paying machines there with signs indicating their payout %age. There is one bank in the non-smoking section and one bank in the smoking section. In each of these banks there is only one 9/6 JoB machine. The rest of the machines in those banks are different variants, 8/5 is a full pay Bonus Poker machine, and 9/5 is a full pay Triple Bonus Plus machine (the highest paying machine in the entire casino).

Hope you did well!

http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/harrahs-st-louis

While on the Vegas strip last week, I struggled to find machines to pay as good as the best that exist at Harrah's STL. I settled for an "Airport" Deuces (98.9%) nickel machine at the Casino Royale. These machines definitely don't exist at McCarran Airport anymore...haha At multiple casinos, I found "Colorado" Deuces everywhere. And 8/5 JoB or worse.

http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.co...riations-45954