Nice!

Shame that only gives you about 20 minutes of play on that machine!

Damn! Well I won't bother posting my $2k handpay today for quad deuces on $2 NSUD. Not baller enough.

An interesting hand, 4 naturals and 1 wild straight to a held gutshot.

That is pretty wild.

Crazy you hit each one though!!!

Hi DJ. So is this the only place to have gambling discussions now that WoV (along with all the users' info) has been sold to the devil?

I know where you are getting your 3% from (don't worry, I'm not going to go blabbing). A couple of things worth pointing out though:

1. It's quarters only. Good low roller stuff but if you have a large bankroll and want to make real $$$ it's no good. If you can get 1000 hands/hr in (I have not played this so I don't actually know how fast the machines are), 3% of $1250 is only $37.50 per hour of EV. If you can only play 800 hands/hr, it's $30/hr. Better than flipping burgers, but not going to make you rich.

2. A lot of the edge comes from mail. This means that you can't play for 2x the hours and make 2x the money -- you need to find the "sweet spot" for maximizing the value of the mail divided by the amount of play you put it. So, there is some trial and error involved.

Other than the scaling, another reason that I don't like playing for mail is the uncertainty involved. You may think that you have an edge, but actually they are onto you and have no-mailed you without telling you. Of course you don't find out for a month or so (when you realize that the mailer never showed up), and, in that time, you are not playing with the edge that you thought you had.

Comparing to something like poker: I think that poker has the same problem of not scaling with your bankroll (just because you can beat the $3/$6 game doesn't mean that you can beat the $40/$80 game, even if you have the bankroll) but at least it does scale with hours played, somewhat (although games will be juicier at some times than at others, so maybe it does have the same problem)

So, I'm not saying that it's not good, but it's not like it's a 3% edge where you can bet as much as you want for as long as you want.

So this 3% edge game has to be 25c fpdw...if it is I know two specific casinos where 25c fpdw is better then the rest. Am I getting warmer?

+1

Bob Dancer makes millions in video poker...from the sale of his books that is, not so much from the machines Keep on dancing Bob

Not only do you expect to win (and only with perfect strategy) a whopping 0,60cents on every 100 USD invested on a 100.60% machine, but also do not forget that you are not guaranteed to hit a royal flush after x hands just because it is expected to happen every x hands. These are averages, and if you just don't hit that royal as often as it is supposed to happen, you'll run out of your bankroll before you hit that royal

Sure you can get a free meal or a free room every now and then, but overall, video poker is a losing proposition or at best a game where your edge is very very small and you may make more money flipping burgers all those hours you put in the machines

If you want to find 100%+ games just go to vpfree2. It's pretty accurate for Vegas. There is a lot more than just FPDW that is 100%+. Finding the best games is the easy part.

The hard part is figuring out how much to play to get the best mail, finding out about their promos, etc. The best game is not necessarily the one with the best return, because a lot of the time they will significantly reduce the theo on their best machines, so you have to play a lot more to get the best mail. Also sometimes the best games will be excluded from the promos. It's entirely possible that a 99.x% game with full points and full promos is worth a lot more than a 100.x% game, or even a 101.x% game that is not eligible for promos and gets fractional points.

Only if you are playing too big for your bankroll.

Well, this is why I don't play for quarters

And that 3% play is, as I said, $30 per hour or more (playing for quarters). You can play this with a relatively small bankroll. This is probably more lucrative than poker with a similar bankroll, and the skill required is far less -- learning a video poker strategy is not that hard, and there are trainers that will tell you when you make mistakes so, unlike poker, you can get instant accurate feedback about the quality of your play, making it easier to improve.

The hard part is not playing the game, it's finding out which game will give you good value (after promos, mail, etc) The mail is really very, very good in some places. This is always changing though, so keeping on top of it is difficult. It's not like a casino announces it when they change the ADT requred to get certain levels of mail.

If you are serious about poker you spend all your time trying to improve your game. If you are serious about VP you spend all your time trying to find the best opportunities, and then a couple of hours learning the game that you need to play for that opportunity.

+ you get comps. Live poker players definitely should add video poker into their mix to maximize the time in a casino by ways of mailers, food comps, etc. I played poker for a bit and was amazed at how low players get comped, but then again it's not a table game so you can't expect much.

It's also worth pointing out:

1. Most people would not bother with a 0.6% edge.

2. If you have a real edge (eg, 3%) then, unless your edge is coming from increased royal value (progressives, or double royals, or whatever) then you STILL have an edge even if you go several cycles between royals.

Most games get about 2% of their payback from royals. If you have a 3% edge, that means that you have a 1% edge between royals. So, if you go 5 royal cycles without hitting one, you still make a bit of money. Of course, this is balanced out by the times that you run well and hit several royals in a single cycle. Then you do very, very well.

For this reason, it might be a good idea to only play games where you have a 2+% edge if your bankroll size is suspect.

As a VP noob, I took time to learn JOB strategy (and just carry it over to BP as well), and I discovered Multi strike BP (98.01%) for .25 and that game is addicting. Ran $100 to $220+ then settled at $175.

The $5 max bet for a .25 machine seemed weird though. I'm assuming that's simply .25 x 5 x 4 lines?

Can I play this level without risking $5 and still getting the best ROI? (Or lack thereof)

Multi-strike is strange. You can't just follow regular JoB strategy and get the optimal payback.

You would always play the top hand, or any hand with a free ride, using normal optimal strategy. But for any lower hand, you'd play more conservatively, since, in addition to the win amount, you also get to play the next hand (which has a lot of value). So you're often making the draw with the best chance of winning something, rather than the highest EV for that hand alone.

Makes sense, I'll look into that like being dealt AK662, is AK now at level one vs 66 level 3-4?

And is $5 still the max best for .25? They had .50 and $1 but pretty sure I hit max while on .25

It's just too high for my "poker / entertainment roll" if so

Wut?

You must be new to this thread.

0.6% including everything (freeplay, mail, comps, etc) is crap. There are better opportunities out there.

I'm talking about video poker here. In a low variance game, that could be a huge edge.

I play vp for fun just like any other casino game.

Does your butler have a butler?

Not sure I see your point. Bankroll requirements scale with denom. I think that a 0.6% edge in a $100 denom game is crap, not because the hourly EV is not high, but because the bankroll requirements are so outrageous.

Edge is not everything.

I would say you must not have visited a lot of casinos. In some form, variations of this exist in almost every big market. The most valuable commodity is time, and its value is highly variable. On some days, I'd drive an hour to pick up $40 in free play. On others, I've skipped a promotion that returns 101% where you can play dollar ten play.

Sorry, didn't realize we were talking about crushing low-roller plays with a $5K bankroll for $16 hourly. Carry on.