You may never hit the Royal so you may never expect that return...

I have hit royals on progressives putting only 100 coin in...

I have also been down 5,000 coins...

hard to play for a progressive...

I know you may never hit, but +EV is good, plus promos

If you don't figure in the Royal, your are -EV

Im just saying... Just because the "Return" of a game is +EV, doesnt mean you are going to expect that...

99.54 return, does not mean you are going to leave losing only .46% of your money...

I know
This is a gambling site
I know what EV is

Can I learn quickly( if I already understand the concept) how to spot a +EV jackpot VP game or is there alot too it

Your results don't determine your EV.

yes I understand thank you...

I have heard people say things like "how did I loose, this game has a 99% return I shouldn't have lost this much" etc etc etc...

I forgot, this is the internet every knows it all already...

sorry...

I'm not certain, but I think you're asking if you can spot when a vp game with a progressive meter on the RF becomes positive. If that is indeed the question, it is fairly simple if you are already familiar with the base game. If you're not, you probably shouldn't be playing it anyway.

For example, a rule-of-thumb for a JOB game with a progressive RF is to add 0.5% in expectation for every 1000 coins the RF is above 4000. Of course, that increase in expectation assumes that you also employ the proper strategy changes for the amount of the RF, so you need to know those points. If you don't, you can trim your estimate for the increase in expectation a bit.

Any vp software will allow you to manipulate the value of the RF for any game to see how that affects total return. Most will allow you to see strategy changes as well for different RF amounts.

You can also expect an increase in variance as the RF value increases. Part of that increase is due to the added value of the RF, but some is due to the strategy changes which cause you to bleed money more quickly until the RF shows up.

just use this site. its free.

http://www.vpgenius.com/

you can put in whatever game youre playing and adjust the paytable and it will analyze the payback percentage and even give you the proper strategy. you can also enter in specific hands and it will tell you the best play.

Wow so I'm a video poker total newb like I said but understand the concept of it being +EV

That site looks amazing and will definitely toy with it
Heck might become a seven stars member because of it
TY!

Its a good way to help you get to seven stars...

every $10 played through a VP machine earns you 1 tier point...

I am 2/3's a way to 7 Stars woot

My last few big hands in order of appearance...

You'd get there even faster (much faster actually) if you'd increase the speed on the machines to the max allowed

So I got no clue how to properly fill out the vpgenius material

Totally newb tastic

Yes.. at that time I was already up nearly 2k for my sessions so was playing slow killing time. I normally play very fast.

I am trying to learn optimal VP JoB, had a question.

If I am dealt 10JQ66, a simulation says I should keep the 10, J, Q

If I am dealt 910J66, a simulation says I should keep the 6's

Why is this? Is this because of the odds of hitting a royal?

Also, can someone explain to me what 9/6, 9/5, 8/6, 8/5 means and how do you know what type of machine you have once you start? Thanks in advance from a noob

T J Q 6 6 = you have 2 cards that will make a pair / 3 cards that can make two pair / 3 cards that make three of a kind...

9 T J 6 6 = you have 1 card that will make a pair / 1 card that makes a pair holding 9 T J / 3 cards that can make two pair / 3 cards that can make 3 of a kind.


the odds of hitting the royal help the reason to hold the T J Q...


9 /6 9/5 8/6 8/5 etc... are what certain games pay...

9/6 pays 9 credits for a full house (45 on max bet of 5 coins) 6 coins for flush (30 on max bet of 5 coins)... based on the odds of getting those hands and all other hands on the machine will figure the return of the game... the better the paytable (9/6 best Jacks or Better) the better the expected return.

you could play a 9/6 double double bonus game, but the return is not as high as 9/6 jacks or better, so you need to know what you are playing and what you are looking for...

IMHO... start with Bonus poker... it is a little more fun, since you get paid a little more for 4 of a kinds, it pays 8/5 full pay... and pays double for two pair like jacks or better, so you can play a long time on your money..

GL GL GL !

Yes, odds of hitting royal + 1 additional Jack or better card

As for your other Q, the first # is pay out for full house, second is # is for flush. 9/6 = 9x credit for fh, 6x credit for flush

Already beat me too it ^ but I'll leave the pics up.

8/5

9/6
[/QUOTE]

Even though these are different games, the idea is still the same.

The 9/6 I hit the royal on is double double bonus... Totally different game and totally different strategy than 9/6 jacks or better...

This is a 9/5 Double Double Bonus

Almost right. Not exactly for the odds of hitting a royal, but rather because of the possibility (and the huge payoff if you do). A small distinction, but ...

Video poker grinders: How long did it take for you guys to get your first royal?

I just started playing the quarter 9/6 JoB machines at Red Rock. I've been practicing with this iPad video poker app that corrects you if you make a mistake. After like 15k coin in on the ipad app at $1.25/hand with perfect play my return is pretty close to expected: about 99.4% or loss of $90. No royals or straight flushes yet on this "machine."

When I played this morning at Red Rock, according to the slot points on my player's card my coin in was about $7000 but my return was like 96% or loss of $270. I'm already kind of pissed that I went through more than 200 bets. I know I made a few mistakes but have the smallish losses of EV per mistake added up already through the 5500 hands I played? It's kind of hard to believe at this point that variance is already rearing it's ugly head. I found myself quietly saying "one time" every time I held 3 of a kind hoping to bink my 1 outer or to fill up when I held 2 pair!

royal and straight flush make up about 2.5% of your return. so if you havent hit either of those plus the mistakes you made, 96% sounds about right.

Welcome to variance. You've ran average on the iPad and below average on the machine that really matters. A return of 96% isn't unheard of over 5500 hands, especially if you have had less than the expected number of quads or boats because those two hand classes form 16% of the machine's return and create the highest amount of variance excluding the royal itself.

Here's an example of 50 5000 hand simulations on a full pay JoB machine:
I used http://www.vpgenius.com for these. Results are in betting units, so multiply by $1.25 for a quarter machine if you want money amounts. This series of simulations return 99.51% overall (ran slightly below EV). Any win over 200 units needed a Royal.

Losing $270 would happen about 30% of the time according to this with perfect play. Your errors will make it a little more likely, but most plays are obvious and the mistakes that you do make probably only cost you a fraction of a percent at most. If you're losing more than 1% on the overall return on errors, then you need to be practicing more. I just played 230 hands here and my errors only cost me 0.15%. http://wizardofodds.com/play/videopoker/

Top 20%ile	21-40%ile	41-60%ile	61-80%ile	Bottom 20%ile
832	79	-60	-157	-273
706	48	-60	-163	-288
704	46	-72	-166	-289
676	7	-90	-171	-300
645	-15	-110	-174	-324
548	-20	-114	-177	-336
533	-33	-118	-239	-350
190	-44	-129	-247	-358
183	-51	-134	-263	-361
138	-55	-139	-267	-424

Bandit
Which IPad app?

Thanks, that's a cool site. I figured in the beginning that I would lose money until I hit a royal...maybe my post was more of a BBV post than anything. I will keep trying to grind it out and let you know when I finally hit my royal!

The app is called Video Poker + Perfect Play Trainer
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/video...420985787?mt=8