there must be a separate deck from which the board comes from too. then looks at each players hand and the dealers hand and removes those cards from the deck. then it shuffles the deck and deals out the board.

whatever it is, i'm pretty sure it is on the up and up.

Nevada Gaming Commission doesn't F around.

It's probably something like this. Looking at other players' cards can help lower the house edge in the single deck game, but I don't think to the point of where the player would gain an advantage.

http://discountgambling.net/2010/01/...-texas-holdem/

Ironically, the only time I have played the game was at the machine in Binion's initially claimed to be "rigged". I didn't observe duplicate cards, but I didn't pay close attention either. I mainly played it because I could play the game for only a $1 ante vs. $5 at a live table.

<--- poor

Good spot pokeraddict, I would definately seek clarification from the manufacturer and gaming comission on this.

I'm waiting for the casino to point out that cameras aren't allowed on the casino floor and therefore, the picture shouldn't exist, so there is no evidence of anything wrong.

FWIW this was months ago and went nowhere. I could not find anyone at NGCB or Binions who even understood the game. The game clearly says on it "Game uses one 52 card deck" and the rules of the game obviously use one 52 card deck. The game is in clear violation of NGCB rules that a video game must mimic its table game but it seems the only solution is to warn people.

This does not drastically change the game. If a player has one of your cards it just means there is one more card in the deck than there should be. This makes it slightly harder to pair. I gave a few other examples in this thread of odd scenarios but it's not like you can get 5 of a kind or anything. It is just the fact that the game is dealing a fouled deck and it isn't disclosed and nobody at Binions or NGCB thinks it is a big deal.

Rigged might be a poor choice of words but it makes it so that all of the Shuffle Master games suspect. Who can you know if you are getting a fair game on the video single deck blackjack in Binions? Does each player have their own deck there too even though it says "Game uses one 52 card deck"?

Next door at Vegas Club the game will also deal out multiples of the same card as well so it isn't just the one at Binions.

Were you able to talk to anyone in gaming?

i agree this is a little misleading, but the game isn't dealing a fouled deck. dealer's cards and the board are selected first, then the players each get their cards from the remaining 45 cards with each player getting cards from an independent pool of the remaining 45 cards. so another player having your card doesn't change anything for you. this just eliminates the players getting an edge by sharing cards.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing slightly -ev games in a casino for entertainment. As long as you know what you are getting into and you are responsible about it then it just becomes a personal choice of how you decide to spend your discretionary income. If you want to set aside $200 for a night of blackjack or whatever I don't see how that's any different than $200 on a nice steak dinner, a show, sporting event, etc. There are alot of things people do for entertainment that can be described as -ev. What about the person that has a bunch of friends that golf and then decides to spend $2000 on a new set of clubs and drivers and then never gets into the game as much as his friends? His clubs see the garage more than they see the course and it's $2000 down the drain. It's just funny how people are so critical about people playing -ev gambling games for entertainment but don't feel the same about going to the movies and doing really -ev things like paying 500% and up markups on things like popcorn, soda, hot dogs, etc.

to this day i still crotch a drink going to the movie theater. i cant see paying $5 for something that normally costs a dollar. or if im going to a sporting or music event, im probably crotching some kind of liquor instead of spending $7 on a beer or whatnot.

Here was an interesting situation. I played this last night at Vegas Club and two of us had the ten of spades with a rag. The board ended up being 89JQ spades so we both had a straight flush. I tried to get a screenshot but he hit rebet too fast.

Seems to me this can only be pro-player if it's set up so that the dealer can't get any card that's dealt to any player.

This was the first time I played it in a while but was downtown and someone else wanted to play it. The odd thing is that this really resolves nothing. While you can get the same card as someone else, your cards still cannot come up on the board. If you have 88 and there are two other 8's out that are not the same as yours, you're not hitting a set, so you're not 4x raising it.

I really cannot figure out how playing with this fouled deck (or however you want to describe this) benefits the casino enough to be dealing a game that contradicts the table game rules. It seems the value of losing trust in players far offsets the fractional percent this might save.

Yes, it probably saves very little to them (from a collusion perspective) because you can still count your "total outs" since all the players' cards are still going to not hit the board.

Also you're wrong on the example you gave, you're supposed to raise 55+ pre even if you have seen both outs, the pair strength is strong enough alone. Collusion effects are very poor in this game and only influence the most marginal hands.

http://discountgambling.net/2010/01/...-texas-holdem/

He also points out that 6 player collusion only lowers the house edge from 2.2% to 1.6% in the live game. So Shufflemaster allowing duplicate cards for players is largely pointless, and like you say, isn't worth questioning the players' trust, imo.