What do you mean they charge $2/hand?

At the games I've seen in California cardrooms (so like M8trix and Lucky Chances) you have to pay a fee to take a hand. I'm not sure if M8trix is a straight $2, but LC seems to be $1/$50 total wager. Indian casinos in CA such as Graton and Jackson Rancheria don't charge this fee.

So at 40 hands per hour, you're paying $80/hr before the house edge....OMG that's so terrible. 6 spots per table...plus house edge LOL game must be a huge earner for the house (if people play it there).

I've never played table games in CA card rooms but as I understand it the fee is the only earner for the house. They cannot legally bank the games so all games are player banked. Outside companies (referred to as The Corporation) hire people to sit at the game and act as the bank. But you're right, it's basically impossible to win.

Like IHeart said, the corporation books the action, but the tables at M8trix have 8 spots (!!!) and I did see a guy playing two hands (the rule there is, you have to bet 1x on the 2nd hand).

Something else they did made me raise an eyebrow...a player put $10 in the Ante circle, but only $5 in the Blind circle. Played the rest of the hand out as if it were a $10 wager, but when the floor was notified, she said to let the $5 wager stand on the Blind bet. I wonder if the player had hit a royal if they would have only paid her $2500.

I believe this game is unbeatbale, playing against the computer.

HOWEVER, I was a dealer(cards) for a number of years, and this is the only game I play. I believe you can win consistantly. I have noticed four factors that tip the scales and a fifth extreme factor. I have consistantly won against the house for about a year now. Of course playing the hands correctly - 4X bets, etc. (Not every visit, but overall, I am up considerably)

1. NOT sharing of hands with other players is almost never enforced (very slight help, not enough to tip the scales). I really do not adjust play much, I am not playing against them. If all the players are staying in, it is less likely the dealer has caught a hand however. If you have an ace, and the player next to you has an ace, do you bet less? probably not.

2. In my casino, the player rewards are very high for length of play with this game compared to other table games (not a major deal, but it all ads up if you play a ton) I get free play monthly, and reward play I can cash out or spend at the casino restaraunts, etc.

3. You can adjust your bet amount during play. If you bet low on the losing hands, and higher on the winning hands, you can start tipping the scales slightly. Very hard to time it though. Keep betting low until "the worm turns". As a dealer, I have seen this phenomenon OFTEN. No mathmatecal explanation, but anyone that has played for any length of time will see this... This game is streaky. Ever see one guy at the table keep winning and winning no matter what junk he is dealt? (no matter how bad he is playing) Sometimes it's the whole table. Same when losing, it seems no matter how good the first two cards are, or what the final cards are, you lose. When you are on a bender, have the courage to increase your bets. This is hard because most people are waiting for the "hammer to fall". Or, you can't win or lose, staying even. Hard to bet, but try to raise your bet after a loss... win, and then back down again. Or find another table. Preferrably one that you see players tipping the dealer.

4. Here is the REAL factor that tips the scales... Innevitably dealers make mistakes. I've seen it with blackjack, but the mistake is only on the $5 bet, and less often. It is multiplied with this game because of the 4X bet and the complexity of the payouts and determining a winning hand. PLUS, I have never seen a pit boss get a call from security on UTH when a dealer makes a mistake. I have seen it with blackjack. I tend to sit in the first position because it is the position the most mistakes are made. By the time he pays/takes the first five hands, the dealer is more likely to forget his/her hand. A little bend of ethics, I know, but easily justified if you have funded the casino in the past, or have any idea of how the casinos operate. If you wanted to be particularrily slippery, watch the dealers and sit at tables you see the dealers taking a long time to figure out their hands.

5. The last trick is flat out cheating "by accident". I have actually accidently put a double bet on the last play, or four bet after the flop (ussually after a couple free drinks). I realized it after, but still got paid on it. A distracted inexperienced dealer with a full table sometimes will not notice a wrong bet after the flop, or the last bet. I noticed this on accident and have not been deperate enough to deliberately do this. DO NOT CAP, this will eventually get caught, and you will be banned.

In a recent trip to the casino, the dealer had made enough mistakes to add up to a $300 swing in wrong payouts/pushes. I lost count after $300. The funny thing was, I still lost some that day, but it would have been MUCH worse. Next time I went, I killed it. I would not have had enough bankroll to come the next day if the dealer was 100%. That was extreme, but I have not gone to the casino where mistakes were not made with this game. I don't think the cameras catch it because the people watching the cameras may not understand the game fully. Even at the minimum $5 bet with a 4X bet, you are putting out $30 (assuming you dont play the trips) If the dealer pays when he is supposed to take, then that is a $50 swing. When the dealer is particularly bad, I may even play the trips with a small bet.

At any rate, I always give some of my winnings back to the dealers. I always tip when I am up. The dealers share tips in my casino, and their pay has gotten worse over the last ten years, not better. Plus the casino has taken away perks and other incentives to work there. I quit working at the casino about eight years ago, and am SO glad I am not working there now. I know long term this will cost me a decent amount of money, but I am not greedy and it is really appreciated by the dealers. Good luck all.

A TIP ON TIPPING

When tipping the dealer, I can tip 4X the original tip of the ante at my casino. This ups the chance the dealer will actually get it home considerably and multiplies his take by 4. Do this instead of spreading out tips or by just matching a dealer bet when you have a hand you would 4X bet.

Good luck to All!

It's impossible to "bet low on the losing hands" and "big on the winning hands". Each hand is an independent event, and your primary betting decision that governs the rest (i.e. your Ante and Blind bets) is made before you see your cards.

^ Exactly...

I somehow glossed over the fact that he/she also stated that tipping more money apparently affects the outcome of the hands? o_O

There's only one possible way for that to be true, and Gaming will certainly be speaking to you about it in short order. They'll probably even arrange to "comp" you a "room".

4. is the real deal, at least in the games I've seen. Before this year, the worst thing I've seen was (different) dealers (a) pay trips like a FH and (b) pay a Play bet when they didn't qualify (despite beating the player hand).

This year, though, I saw a dealer pay a whole table's worth of 2-way bad beat bets when they put a straight on the board.

For 5., I often wonder how often the players put too much money out "accidentally".

With the dealer being required to go to showdown, isn't this game basically won and lost on the fact that the ante has to be the same size as the blind bet, making any breakeven scenario by the player based on the fact that you have to have a win rate equal to or BETTER THAN 2 to 1?

I think he was suggesting that a table with a lot of tipping would be one of the "lucky" tables. More tips = more people winning. Still ridiculous, but he wasn't referring to anything shady (at least in that portion of his post).

I know he wasn't actually trying to suggest anything shady, my point is just that tipping has no bearing on whether it "gets there" or not. Any table where it actually does -not just in appearance- is shady, though. I've seen a small number of blackjack games like that already.

This game is actually starting to just piss me off. Out for a friend's birthday I ran across a game with dealers flashing, but not just a hole card...they were showing the river, too! It was begging to be wrecked!

Nope. It just let me know when the fill-in straight/flush was coming. Finished -40 units, just got too fed up to continue. Got to 2x a couple gutshots I knew were coming, but it kicked me square in the crotch a couple times. Went 4x with A2 on a flashed river A vs a KX, flop came KKK; always fun drawing dead. Personal favorites, though, were folding a K-high fill-in flush to the A-high I saw, and folding not one but two underfulls to the overfull.

Now if only all this wonderful information would let me actually come out ahead instead of just being behind less. Oh well. Same place had a dealer fanning her cards at 3CP, so if nothing else I can take that on in the near future.

I got the "book" for this game by going to the library a few weeks ago. I was too aggressive preflop. As it turns out there are a lot of situations where it is better to wait until the turn/river even if you are a favorite pre. Since then I have been to the casino twice and no flashers in this or the other good game ugh.

If you want to at least break even though all you need is a couple folks at the table who won't raise the full 4x and you complete their bet. One extra bet every few hands should be enough.

I am not understanding here... if you are a favorite pre, how is it not +EV in the long run to get it in?

I think it is because the Ante pushes when the dealer doesn't qualify, so you need to raise the hand strength requirement for 4x betting to something above the 50% mark.

interesting... that makes total sense.
thank you

Well you have to wager 2 units - Ante + Blind and when you win most times you only win Ante and sometimes you don't even win the Ante if dealer doesn't qualify, but when you lose you lose Ante + Blind. However you're making up for that by being able to 4X when you're a favorite but that's not enough to make up the Blind disadvantage.

Scroll down to the Preflop section - the player makes all his money from the 4X bet. http://discountgambling.net/ultimate-texas-holdem/

This isn't it. The ante bet is unrelated to the play bet until the river decision. The reason you pass up those 51% edges is because it can be more +EV to see the flop or turn+river for free and raise there with a big edge or fold when you are a huge dog. And when you see that dealer has a medium strength hand against you (for example 9x vs your Q5 or something) it is even better to wait since you aren't giving up much on the 4x, but you gain a lot when you can fold the river vs. a known pair when you would have lost the 4x raise.

Frankly... that 4x range is even a little lighter than the one I constructed in my mind when playing live in the few sessions I have played this game.
good to know I am on the same track.

^ frankly... I don't think you are seeing it correctly my man.

He is though

The IRS is correct.

Yo, basic strategy has been solved guys. Just google "wizard of odds ultimate Texas hold 'em"