This game is so easy to beat it's not funny. The real trick is DEALERS THAT EXPOSE THEIR HOLE CARDS! I admit I am a degen that after losing in the poker room goes to the pit to GET IT BACK, Well i have started playing this ultimate deal and the dealer and the floor let everybody see each others cards and even play it like GO FISH by asking "anybody got aces,kingsetc.. " I kid you not. then late/early they put in some new dealer that front loads and 1st base sees at least 1 card every time, i am afraid to bet too big as the last 2 times I started with 150 and took it to 700 plus and went back to poker room.that math stuff you guys posted will help more.and no I NEVER play trips spot and YES i hero call the river ALOT
This game is so easy to beat it's not funny. The real trick is DEALERS THAT EXPOSE THEIR HOLE CARDS! I admit I am a degen that after losing in the poker room goes to the pit to GET IT BACK, Well i have started playing this ultimate deal and the dealer and the floor let everybody see each others cards and even play it like GO FISH by asking "anybody got aces,kingsetc.. " I kid you not. then late/early they put in some new dealer that front loads and 1st base sees at least 1 card every time, i am afraid to bet too big as the last 2 times I started with 150 and took it to 700 plus and went back to poker room.that math stuff you guys posted will help more.and no I NEVER play trips spot and YES i hero call the river ALOT
Well cheating in any game will give you an edge. If this is the case you should be betting the max every time. If you know the dealers cards, it would be an easy game for sure.
Well cheating in any game will give you an edge. If this is the case you should be betting the max every time. If you know the dealers cards, it would be an easy game for sure.
Taking advantage of a dealer mistake is not necessarily cheating.
It is cheating. If your player next to you at a poker table lifts his cards too high and you see them, is that cheating? Same thing.
Maybe from a moral standpoint, but I'm referring to the legal sense of the word. Capping bets, marking cards, etc. are good examples of cheating. These activities will lead to your winnings being confiscated and possible jail time. I'm no expert, but hole-carding will only result in an escort to the door (at worst) as far as I know. It's an acceptable form of advantage play and NOT illegal.
I'd rather not get into the moral argument too much because it's been beaten to death in this forum. Whenever I see a neighbor's hole cards I always let them know. But I have no problem taking legal advantage of dealer mistakes in the pit. That dealer's employer almost certainly engages in plenty of "immoral" practices themselves.
The game is only +EV if you can hole card the dealer. Neighbor info isn't enough to kill the house edge.
True. If you were responding to our neighbor card discussion above, I should elaborate that we were referring to seeing your neighbor's cards at a regular poker table.
I don't mean cheating in a legal way I guess. I meant to say that we are gaining a HUGE edge by seeing the dealers cards. If this is the case, its "cheating" but legal to do. The dealer would get in trouble I would assume. But if I had this option, I would play the game and play as big as I could.
The dealer would get in trouble I would assume. But if I had this option, I would play the game and play as big as I could.
Yes, and if they flashed hole cards too many times and were getting exploited too much, they would eventually get fired. Knowing one of the dealer's hole cards can be a >10% player edge.
played it more yesterday went to $25 per spot and jammed K5suited and up and hero called river with 10 high on paired board -1k buy in waiting for poker seat $700 win lost at poker went back ,same strat $900 buy in $600 win .no hole cards but this game seems better than dice or bj
played it more yesterday went to $25 per spot and jammed K5suited and up and hero called river with 10 high on paired board -1k buy in waiting for poker seat $700 win lost at poker went back ,same strat $900 buy in $600 win .no hole cards but this game seems better than dice or bj
Its an easy game when you go on a heater. Everything is easy... But in the long run, you will lose.
I got to play this in Reno a few months ago and it was pretty fun. Read up on the wizardofodds page, and will probably make some drunken postflop errors in Vegas later this month.
I have to wonder how much the house gains on poor preflop play. I'm shocked what some (most) folks won't raise with. I personally don't feel great about the ****ty aces and kings, but if the wizard has done the heavy lifting, I'll go with it. I see people checking AKs/AQs/medium pairs and it makes me cringe.
HE on Craps don't pass is 0.40%
HE on strip rules BJ with 6 decks is 0.55%
HE on ante bet for Ultimate Texas Hold'em is 2.18%
Thankfully we have actual mathematical methods for game analyses or else we'd have to rely on our guts, and evidence says our guts are just **** at analysing games.
HE on Craps don't pass is 0.40%
HE on strip rules BJ with 6 decks is 0.55%
HE on ante bet for Ultimate Texas Hold'em is 2.18%
Thankfully we have actual mathematical methods for game analyses or else we'd have to rely on our guts, and evidence says our guts are just **** at analysing games.
Technically yes, but there's more to it. From the Wizard of Odds:
Quote:
The lower right cell shows a house edge of 2.185% per ante bet. What this means, for example, is if you bet $1 and both the Ante and Blind initially, then you can expect to lose 2.185 cents on average. However for comparison to other games I believe the Element of Risk is more appropriate to look at. The average total amount bet by the end of the hand is 4.152252 times the ante bet. So the element of risk would be 2.185%/4.152252 = 0.52
Last edited by konbanwa; 07-03-2013 at 12:38 PM.
Reason: Lots of discussion on this earlier in the thread
Technically yes, but there's more to it. From the Wizard of Odds:
I meant:
HE on Craps don't pass is 0.40%
-1.36% for resolved roll. I don't see people make the bet and pick it up after 1 roll.
HE on strip rules BJ with 6 decks is 0.55%
-ok
HE on ante bet for Ultimate Texas Hold'em is 2.18%
-That's just the ante bet, not the total risk.
I just wanted to clarify that with optimum strategy, the house edge is 0.52% and better than BJ unless your counting. But the swings of the game can be huge.
I got to play this in Reno a few months ago and it was pretty fun. Read up on the wizardofodds page, and will probably make some drunken postflop errors in Vegas later this month.
I have to wonder how much the house gains on poor preflop play. I'm shocked what some (most) folks won't raise with. I personally don't feel great about the ****ty aces and kings, but if the wizard has done the heavy lifting, I'll go with it. I see people checking AKs/AQs/medium pairs and it makes me cringe.
I would assume the house makes at least 10% or more on the ante bet for the average player. If you check all the way to the river, and play perfectly after that, the house wins > 30% of an ante!
Read up on Stephen How's page and/or buy James Grosjean's strategy card if you plan to spend serious time of this game.
No, that isn't the house edge. That is misleading. The house edge is 2.18% of an ante.
Clarified your post. As for the element of risk, with a quite large average bet of 4.15 units, is only 0.526%. So offTopic, $5 UTH is a swingier game of $20 BJ.
I would assume the house makes at least 10% or more on the ante bet for the average player. If you check all the way to the river, and play perfectly after that, the house wins > 30% of an ante!
Read up on Stephen How's page and/or buy James Grosjean's strategy card if you plan to spend serious time of this game.
Clarified your post. As for the element of risk, with a quite large average bet of 4.15 units, is only 0.526%. So offTopic, $5 UTH is a swingier game of $20 BJ.
Yeah it's just a pet peeve of mine when people say things like "the house edge is lower than X" because it's simply not the case at all.
I'd be careful in making assumptions about optimal strategy based on computer simulations. The tendency with these games is for the players to send the cards back to the dealer in poker hand order in the hope they will survive the shuffle. If that was indeed the case, it will noticeably alter the optimal strategy and house edge. In a hand-shuffled game it certainly would.
The question is whether the shuffler actually does a sufficiently good job of randomizing the cards. I have direct experience of several automated devices which didn't do this.
I am not talking about casinos "rigging" the games, indeed the effect is caused by the players, I'm talking about a relatively subtle, scientifically verifiable effect. A very subtle influence on the odds of being dealt a given card make all calculations and optimal strategy concerning this game invalid.
Game analysts tend to make questionable simplifying assumptions because they are difficult to figure out without actually going into a casino and taking lots of data. Any complaints can be written off by patronizingly alluding to standard deviation.
