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Old 01-13-2020, 12:48 PM   #376
borg23
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

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Originally Posted by UTHAddict View Post
This is a great thread! I remember reading this 8-9 years ago when I discovered this game at a casino in PA. I've been on a nice run over the past couple months and would like to share my experiences. I'm a poker player at heart(admittedly not a very good one), but there is no rush in the casino comes close to playing this game. I stopped playing BJ completely after I found this game.

Estimated Stats
All in all, I've probably played about 50-60 sessions averaging about 5hours each. I mainly play $10 tables but will gear up $15 and even $25 if I'm running hot.
-I would estimate that I'm up about 15k-20k all time, coming out ahead about 60-65% of the sessions.
-My biggest losing session was $1500 and I've had about 5 losing sessions of $1000-once in an hour.
-My biggest winning session was $8k when I hit the royal flush. My last 5 sessions have been: +8k, +1.5k, +$500, +$500 and +$900(today). The $1.5k win was with a straight flush on the flop betting $25 ante-blind.
-The craziest sequence I've seen at a table is 6 quads in the space of about 3 hours. I had one and one was on the board(although I didn't play trips on this hand and lost my blind). I've also lost 11 straight hands.


Approach

I know the right plays but only do them about 80%-90% of the time. My rationale for this is that the variance in this game is a royal b!tch, so if I've lost a few 4x row or if I'm just running bad in general, I might not be as apt to do it on some of the more marginal +EV hands(K2s, K5o, etc) especially if my bets are up to $15.

-I usually buy in for $300 at a time, just so I'm thinking about what I'm doing. Money can go fast in this game so when I rebuy, at least it gives me a moment to pause.
-I try as much as possible to minimize the amount lost on losing streaks and maximize the amount won on winning streaks. If I'm losing, I'll usually take my bets down to $10 and try to ride it out. If I'm winning, I'll up my bets to $15 and occasionally more. I generally don't play $5/hand because it feels wasted when I hit a big hand. I feel I have a very good sense for how to do this now and it's really key.
-I've found that for my bankroll it doesn't make sense(ever) to bet more than $15(ante and blind). Even marginal increase to $25 introduces a level of variance that I can't handle.
-I do actually play trips, especially when I'm on a roll, but I try to limit it to $5(40% of the time) $10(20% of the time), and always an amount less than my blind-ante. I know it's a sucker bet but I find the game immensely more interesting when I play it, so I try to do it in moderation. I've been lucky to hit some of my big hands such as a royal, a sf, and several quads when I was playing it. I take a lot of flak from dealers and players alike for not playing it all the time.
-As much as possible, I try to get action from my neighbors. When people are scared to go 4x with their A-10, K-10 type hands, I gladly offer to go half and half. The casino I play at doesn't mind this and the way I see it, if people are leaving EV+ plays out there, it might as well go to you and not the casino. There's so many people that play these incorrectly that it's pretty much there for the taking every time you sit down.
-I can usually get a $25-50$ comp after every session win or lose, even though this casino is notoriously cheap. If you're nice enough, I've found that 75% of pit bosses will gladly do this for you. It may not seem like much, but it adds up and I'm never paying for food. I treat myself to many steak dinners from this.
-I've never come across any flashers, but dealer mistakes are fairly common and no, i do not correct them when they make a mistake that's in my favor. IMO, the casino is not a place for you to take the moral high ground as they will gladly take/steal your money if given the chance.


Observations
95% of people I've come across play this game horribly wrong and are not redeemable. This game must be a massive money maker for the casinos. Here are the most notable ones:

-The biggest mistake is failing to 4x when they should. Most won't even raise hands like AQ, A10, KQ, etc. Today I saw the absolute worse case of this where a lady didn't 4X or even 2X her pocket 10s and second guessed whether to 4X her pocket aces. When I asked her why she was even thinking about it she said "That hand usually works out bad for me so I don't like to bet it". I couldn't help myself, so I said "look, it's your money, but you cannot win at this game doing what your doing." She replied that I should do what what works for me. She also went on to say that most of the times she won't bother to look at her hand before the flop because it usually "gets her in trouble". At this point I realized that she was way to far gone-she lost $600 in an hour and went broke, complaining all along the way. A dealer once give me grief for 4x A10o when I lost saying I "need to wait to see the flop, I've dealt this game a long time". The pit boss overheard and nodded in agreement. Frustrate, I said "is there a game that offers you 51% change in the casino, and would you take it all day everyday if there was!?" They said "yes, ofcourse we would", so then I said "what about 60%+? that's what that hand was" and then all I got was a lot of silence....
-Playing a disproportionate amount on trips. It boggles my mind when I see people play $10 on ante-blind and do $30+ on the trips, so even when they win, they still lose! I've even seen folks doing $15 on the back and $100 on the trips because "that where you make the money" as they tell me-I kid you not! Needless to say, these folks don't last very long.
-Not being aware of the variance. They buy in for $200 and are surprised when they lose it all in a couple hands or they will buy in for $1000 but play $25-50$ per hand.

The other 5% know what to do in the vast majority of situations, but don't always do it(I'm in this bucket). In fact I have never come across a single player that makes the right mathematical plays on every hand.

I have not even come across another player that wins at this game, mostly due to the mistakes above. Obviously, I don't always win, but people usually lose around me left and right and quit.
don't correct dealers and pit bosses when they tell you dumb ****.
because most people play uth horribly and most pit bosses don't know the correct strategy you get way overcomped for it. don't correct them.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:47 PM   #377
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

Why on earth wouldn't you make the right play each time? I don't even understand that logic if you know the math. It's one thing to miscount your outs at 3am but otherwsie I don't get this.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:55 PM   #378
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

Thanks for the advice folks! I guess I need to rein it in a bit with the unsolicited advice. Haven't played since this post, but hope to do so this weekend!

$$$$
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:00 PM   #379
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

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Why on earth wouldn't you make the right play each time? I don't even understand that logic if you know the math. It's one thing to miscount your outs at 3am but otherwsie I don't get this.
Maybe I'm not thinking about it the right way, but I think my explanation was variance. Those coin flip hands can put you in a hole quickly if you do too many of them and run bad. I don't know, but I think money management is key in this game. I don't mind giving up that small edge, to live to fight with a a better hand.
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:57 PM   #380
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

BR mgmt has nothing to do with making the right play. Those are two different issues.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:03 AM   #381
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

I think it does because my bankroll is not unlimited. I cap my losses at $1k usually.

Anyway, I had a $450 7-8 hour losing session yesterday. Started with $300, went down to my last chip, went up $400, down, up and down again. Got steak dinner and some free desserts and called it a night. Once again, almost everyone I played with lost-some quite big.
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:32 AM   #382
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

If you're at a casino that let's you play 2 hands at once or 2 spots at once then it's better for you win wise.
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Old 11-27-2020, 08:30 AM   #383
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

Speaking of which...

As of yesterday, our local tribal casino (Emerald Queen) now let's you play 2 hands! Only thing is, is that the 2nd hand has to be played blind (3x or 4x the ante bet) before the flop. The bets for the blind and ante for the 2nd hand can be anywhere from the table minimum bet to the table maximum bet! You don't have to double the minimum bet for the 2nd hand!

Last edited by Jion_Wansu; 11-27-2020 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 11-27-2020, 02:32 PM   #384
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

How could they be so foolish? You'll own the place in no time.
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Old 11-27-2020, 02:58 PM   #385
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

I don't quite understand. If you have to play it blind, how does that help?
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:42 AM   #386
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

New rule modification with the 2 hands thing.

So, now you don't have to bet blind (3x or 4x before the flop) on the 2nd hand anymore. You just can't touch the hand and the hand gets dealt face up on the table (yes, I know, stupid rule which allows other players and yourself know what outs there are and so forth). Also, same rule still in effect where you don't have to double the minimum bet like blackjack if you want to play 2 hands.
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Old 11-28-2020, 10:57 AM   #387
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

Wow, that would be amazing. Especially if you and someone else could do the minimum bet extra hand. But I wouldn't be surprised if they ban winning players from utilizing it.
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Old 11-28-2020, 11:30 AM   #388
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

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Originally Posted by Jion_Wansu View Post
New rule modification with the 2 hands thing.

So, now you don't have to bet blind (3x or 4x before the flop) on the 2nd hand anymore. You just can't touch the hand and the hand gets dealt face up on the table (yes, I know, stupid rule which allows other players and yourself know what outs there are and so forth). Also, same rule still in effect where you don't have to double the minimum bet like blackjack if you want to play 2 hands.
i heard there are casinos that, because of covid, dont let you touch the cards in any table game.
so everything gets dealt face up.

major boon for people playing blkjack and uth.
unfortunately, i dont know where these casinos are.
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Old 12-08-2020, 01:15 AM   #389
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

Yeah, that's not the case for this game and Heads Up Hold 'Em. Everyone knows and/or should know that the shuffler is rigged in these games compared to the shuffler for non table game poker games. The shuffler false shuffles and presets the cards, otherwise there would be a lot more bonuses. This is also true for Pai Gow.
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Old 12-08-2020, 02:12 AM   #390
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

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Originally Posted by Jion_Wansu View Post
Yeah, that's not the case for this game and Heads Up Hold 'Em. Everyone knows and/or should know that the shuffler is rigged in these games compared to the shuffler for non table game poker games. The shuffler false shuffles and presets the cards, otherwise there would be a lot more bonuses. This is also true for Pai Gow.
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Old 12-09-2020, 04:41 AM   #391
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

Next you're gonna tell me that the slot machines aren't rigged for you to lose as well...
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Old 12-20-2020, 06:34 PM   #392
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

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Originally Posted by AA Suited View Post
i heard there are casinos that, because of covid, dont let you touch the cards in any table game.
so everything gets dealt face up.

major boon for people playing blkjack and uth.
unfortunately, i dont know where these casinos are.
The -EV part of this gamble is you have to go inside a casino.
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Old 12-26-2020, 09:57 PM   #393
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

Why don't casinos in general or casinos in Europe use these more lifelike playing cards?

Would it be too expensive?

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/i...b9042c19cb.jpg


Last edited by Jion_Wansu; 12-26-2020 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 12-31-2020, 02:45 AM   #394
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

Which queen of hearts looks better?

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Old 12-31-2020, 02:35 PM   #395
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

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Which queen of hearts looks better?

Which casino is that?
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Old 01-02-2021, 07:35 AM   #396
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

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Old 01-11-2021, 04:33 PM   #397
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

those look like Lac Lemay outside Ottawa
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Old 01-14-2021, 05:33 PM   #398
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

That looks like a French deck. Normal cards are called "Anglo-American" though we also have the French suits and the same 52 cards.

In France itself the picture cards have different letters - but I have a deck with the normal letters.
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Old 06-18-2021, 08:45 PM   #399
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Re: My road to beating ultimate texas holdem

So if this game had 1 joker that is used as an ace, a straight, or a flush, then it is possible for 1 player to have 5 aces and another player to have a royal flush if the joker is on the flop, turn, or river to make the royal flush with a joker...
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