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Old 04-05-2018, 10:33 PM   #1
JefPat
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Many questions about slot machines

Hey guys! I'm a poker player (obv), but I'm also curious about slots machines. How they work? Who programm their winrate and what is the rake in this kind of machine?

In Quebec/Canada per example, some slot machine only keep 8% for each dollars you put in (you can read this on the machine). How do they calculate this rake?

If I put 100$ on the machine, gamble until I only have 1$, win 98$ (total 99$), gamble again until I have 1$, win 97$, etc, until I got busto, how do the slot machine see his rake?

If you have a book on the subject or a video, feel free to post a link.

I'm just curious about the subject.

Thanks
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:37 PM   #2
NewOldGuy
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

Quote:
Originally Posted by JefPat View Post
Hey guys! I'm a poker player (obv), but I'm also curious about slots machines. How they work? Who programm their winrate and what is the rake in this kind of machine?

In Quebec/Canada per example, some slot machine only keep 8% for each dollars you put in (you can read this on the machine). How do they calculate this rake?

If I put 100$ on the machine, gamble until I only have 1$, win 98$ (total 99$), gamble again until I have 1$, win 97$, etc, until I got busto, how do the slot machine see his rake?

If you have a book on the subject or a video, feel free to post a link.

I'm just curious about the subject.

Thanks
You simply design the wheels with the desired number of winning combinations, and then spin them randomly. Over time the combinations determines the payout and no control of the spins or outcomes needs to be used.
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Old 04-09-2018, 09:54 AM   #3
Didace
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

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Originally Posted by NewOldGuy View Post
You simply design the wheels with the desired number of winning combinations, and then spin them randomly. Over time the combinations determines the payout and no control of the spins or outcomes needs to be used.
I don't think that's the way modern slots work. It's my understanding that they use a RNG and the result of the spin is determined when you hit the button. The spinning wheels are just for show.
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Old 04-09-2018, 01:48 PM   #4
NewOldGuy
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

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Originally Posted by Didace View Post
I don't think that's the way modern slots work. It's my understanding that they use a RNG and the result of the spin is determined when you hit the button. The spinning wheels are just for show.
The principle is still the same. The main point for the OP is that spins are random and results are random, and in fact required to be by law in many places. The full result set possible on the machine contains the desired number of winning results to give the desired payouts while using random outcomes. There is no controlling of results of individual spins.
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:14 AM   #5
elendil200
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

The payout odds on slots are misleading.You mentioned that the machine you were looking out has a return rate of 92% . The 92% is based off turn over, not cash in/cash out.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:39 AM   #6
rainmaker1855
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

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Originally Posted by Didace View Post
I don't think that's the way modern slots work. It's my understanding that they use a RNG and the result of the spin is determined when you hit the button. The spinning wheels are just for show.
+1 this is true for pretty much any modern slot (you maybe could still find a few out there that are dated but anything flashy or fun nowadays is RNG-based.)

Also OP - as far as your scenario on how the slot machine gets their piece of the action: you're right that the scenario you outlined they really aren't making money. However, the scenario you described (while possible and certainly happens) is far less likely to happen over the huge volume of sessions a machine has.

Slot machines (which I personally enjoy playing from time to time) are great for casinos because they are one of the purest examples of a game that gets gamblers to falter based on the sunk cost fallacy. People put $100, $200, $1000+ into a machine and figure "probabilistically it has to hit at some point" so they keep chasing the money they've already put in and end up very quickly losing more.

I mean think about, slots are the place where real degens dont have to interact with another living soul, usually has some form of a huge exponential reward if you hit the jackpot, and it is completely play at your own pace with no stopping unless you choose to.
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:09 PM   #7
JefPat
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

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Originally Posted by rainmaker1855 View Post
+1 this is true for pretty much any modern slot (you maybe could still find a few out there that are dated but anything flashy or fun nowadays is RNG-based.)

Also OP - as far as your scenario on how the slot machine gets their piece of the action: you're right that the scenario you outlined they really aren't making money. However, the scenario you described (while possible and certainly happens) is far less likely to happen over the huge volume of sessions a machine has.

Slot machines (which I personally enjoy playing from time to time) are great for casinos because they are one of the purest examples of a game that gets gamblers to falter based on the sunk cost fallacy. People put $100, $200, $1000+ into a machine and figure "probabilistically it has to hit at some point" so they keep chasing the money they've already put in and end up very quickly losing more.

I mean think about, slots are the place where real degens dont have to interact with another living soul, usually has some form of a huge exponential reward if you hit the jackpot, and it is completely play at your own pace with no stopping unless you choose to.
Great post sir (sorry for assuming your gender), thanks!
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:59 AM   #8
slotscrazy
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

Hey - Im a BIG slot player and know a bit about the subject.

They are a very different set up to poker and the rake per hand. Everything is measured on Return to Player (RTP) and variance - the latter of which is as important as the first.

Most slots (online and offline) operate at around 95% RTP, though Progressive Jackpot Slots will usually have a lower RTP as a small % of wagering goes to the jackpot pool. So expect a big PJP to have an rtp of around 91-94%.

RTP overall is calculated on wagering - so if you wager $100 on average you would expect to get back $95. Obviously this is an average in reality your session will deviate from this.

And this is where variance comes in. Variance is the mathematical term for how far from the average a number will deviate. In a high variance game your session may deviate hugely from the norm which means you can get long periods where the payout is much lower than the 95% average, but then on a lucky session you could hit a 2000% RTP! So when you find a high variance game (you can ask where they are in an offline casino) what you can expect is long periods with little return followed by a massive jackpot payout. i..e you play these games for those big wins, but can expect a bit of frustration trying to hit them!

There's a list of current online high variance games on this site:

https://theslotbuzz.com/slot-games/h...machines-list/

On the other side are low variance slots where you will see regular small payouts, and almost all your play time will see you get about 95% back, with much less variation.

Aside from that, yes it is all RNG based, by law. The reels are just a representation of the outcome of running an algorithm. Its all about luck, no skill. But they can be a lot of fun, and there are some pretty crazy games out there.
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Old 12-08-2020, 07:05 AM   #9
slotsfan
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

Hi all poker players,

So let me start off by saying, going for a slot machine that keeps 8% of your stake in average is a bad choice (92% RTP).

If you are going to play slots, you want to choose a machine with the highest possible RTP but yet decent payouts.

Here is a list of slots with an RTP of 98%+: https://www.slotshawk.com/slot-games/high-rtp-slots/

If you stick to these types of slots, the house will "only" keep 1-2% of your money on average (You can see this as rake if you like). This is far better than a regular online slot machine that usually keep 4-6% of your stake.

To answer your question about who programs their winrate: That is slots/game providers like Netent, Microgaming and IGT. Online casinos can then host their games on their plattform.

In order to get a valid license the game providers are always obliged to display the RTP of their slots.

I hope that clarified your questions a little bit, but feel free to PM me if you would like to know anything else.
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Old 12-16-2020, 09:59 AM   #10
GabrielBlare
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

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Originally Posted by slotsfan View Post
Hi all poker players,

So let me start off by saying, going for a slot machine that keeps 8% of your stake in average is a bad choice (92% RTP).

If you are going to play slots, you want to choose a machine with the highest possible RTP but yet decent payouts.

Here is a list of slots with an RTP of 98%+: https://www.slotshawk.com/slot-games/high-rtp-slots/

If you stick to these types of slots, the house will "only" keep 1-2% of your money on average (You can see this as rake if you like). This is far better than a regular online slot machine that usually keep 4-6% of your stake.

To answer your question about who programs their winrate: That is slots/game providers like Netent, Microgaming and IGT. Online casinos can then host their games on their plattform.

In order to get a valid license the game providers are always obliged to display the RTP of their slots.

I hope that clarified your questions a little bit, but feel free to PM me if you would like to know anything else.
Thank you for the advise! I will check out this website.
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Old 12-26-2020, 10:34 PM   #11
Jion_Wansu
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

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Old 12-29-2020, 09:31 AM   #12
Onlinercasino
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

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Old 02-02-2021, 04:02 PM   #13
stremba70
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

RTP is just the expected value of the payout for any spin divided by the cost of the spin. Expected value of a spin is calculated by multiplying the amount of each possible payout by the probability that the payout will occur and taking the sum.

To illustrate suppose you have a simple slot machine that costs $3 per spin. It has bars and blanks on each of its three reels and only one Pauline. It pays $2 for bar/blank/blank, $20 for bar/bar/blank and $200 for bar/bar/bar. Each reel has 20 positions, with five bars on reels 1 and 2 and two on reel 3. The probability of the $2 win is 27/160. The probability of the $20 win is 9/160. The probability of the $200 win is 1/160. The expected value of the payout is 54/160 + 180/160 + 200/160 = 434/160 or $2.71. This machine would therefore have an RTP of 2.71/3.00 = 90.4%.

Obviously real machines have more complex paytables and the individual payout probabilities are not given. An additional complexity ids that you often can play different bets per spin and these can have different RTPs. Generally, for example if you can bet 1, 2 or 3 credits, most payouts will be proportional to your bet (ie the 3 credit payout is triple that of the 1 credit payout for the same combo), but the jackpot payout is often higher for the maximum bet. Iíve seen machines with, for instance, jackpot payouts of 1500, 3000, and 5000 for the 1,2 and 3 credit bets. This can be magnified on progressives since the max bet is typically neede to win the progressive jackpot. Iím just guessing, but Iíd assume the RTP thatís reported is for the max bet and might be lower if you bet less.
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Old 05-12-2021, 07:03 AM   #14
MichaelGabs
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

see this article from SlotsOnlineCanada.com on why RTP isn't a good metric

'To calculate the variance of a given slot, you first need to find its RTP. Then, for each payout, compute (payout − RTP)2 and multiply this quantity by the probability of that payout. This gives you one term for each payoutóadd them up to compute the variance. Itís common to also calculate the square root of the variance (called the standard deviation) since it has units in dollars'
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:04 AM   #15
rickroll
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Re: Many questions about slot machines

i gotta say i'm really impressed by the effort put in by the link spammers in this thread, every single one of them here is easily 10x better crafted than the hundreds of others i've seen here
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