"Time after time, people ask what I do, and when I tell them, they laugh in disbelief. Anyone can beat certain slot machines if they understand +EV (positive expected value). Like in poker and stock trading, a person can calculate variables and deduce whether or not something is worth investing time and money in. Advantage Slot Player is the official job title. I've traveled the country and played in many casinos. I've been homeless, broke, depressed and then the next day on top of the world. I've recently decided to make instructional videos for anyone interested. I can provide as proof, free of costs. Ask away."

Here's the thread...

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment..._playing_slot/


Seems legit to me

Maybe Chainsaw can chime in and let us know if this guys legit or not.

Define "legit". His method is legit as stated. Any slot machine where the jackpot/s that are progressive and uncapped become profitable at some theoretical point. Whether he's doing this professionally or just wants to sell the method is any one's guess, but I get the right vibe off him.

Whether this is a strong enough play to be worthwhile is debatable. A decade ago or so there was a lot of fuss about the Piggy Banking machines, which were attractive to low-stakes AP's. There seems to be much less interest in the subject now.

The main drawbacks to this play in my experience: clocking these machines for the optimal wong-in point is time-consuming. The play can't be scaled up and the variance is high relative to bet size.

If he chooses wisely it is surely plausible.

it's not smart to reveal secrets on games that's already scarce... in case u were planning to use it urself. =/

Another guy (or maybe the same guy?) posted something similar on reddit before.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment..._player_for_5/

Was a good read.

Haven't read it all, but from what I have read it sounds like he is legit. I have several pro gambler friends and many more contacts. One of my friends is a former slot/VP pro. There were (and presumably are) a lot more pro VP players, but there are a lot of hustlers on the machines that might understand how to beat a few different types of machines and stalk those relentlessly. They don't truly understand the game, but they know enough to beat it. Since they don't really understand how the games work, they don't know how to find new beatable games. There are only a handful of pros in the country that are knowledgeable enough to find new beatable games, or at least new types (many follow the same concepts, so they are easier to identify). I don't count myself in that group, but it's nice to know the smart guys in the business. The vast, vast majority of the hustlers out there are degenerate gamblers at heart and they lose every penny that they earn on the +EV machines by playing other games. The life of a machine pro is a major grind and it's not unusual to put in long hours and lots of travel to earn $2-300/day. Occasionally you'll find a big play that is worth quite a bit more while it lasts, but this is somewhat rare.

One thing worth mentioning is that generally speaking, you aren't taking money out of the pockets of the casino. You are usually taking advantage of the other gamblers who are losing money to build up some feature, such as a progressive jackpot. A VP progressive is the simplest to explain. If the base game without the progressive returns perhaps 98.5% with optimal play, but the $0.0025 of every dollar that goes through the machine (0.25%) gets added to the progressive and the slot club card returns another 0.25%, the overall return if you played it forever with perfect strategy is 99%. However, occasionally the progressive will get high enough that the game is +EV, and we only play it then. We are taking advantage of the fact that civilians played the game when it was -EV and built up that jackpot for us. Even if we do this regularly, the house still makes their 1% on average (if everyone plays perfectly), but we profit and everybody else loses more as a result. It is similar on most slot plays. They house still makes the same amount, but we win a little bit by taking advantage of people who have lost more than their EV and built up some feature that through nothing but luck/variance, and sometimes through lack of understanding of the game, it didn't hit for them. Since we know what triggers these payouts or bonus features, we can identify the point when the machine becomes +EV, similar to the progressive VP example. Also like the progressive VP example, the games usually aren't +EV and we are looking for the somewhat uncommon situation where the machines meets our criteria to identify it as +EV.

Once you know the games, they are fairly quick and easy to scout, so even though they aren't worth much, I'll still take a quick look while I'm in the casino. I will often scout machines when I wong out of a BJ game or while I'm waiting for the right conditions on other games. If I'm playing poker, I'll get on the list and go check the machines, and every so often when I need a break to walk around and stretch, I'll walk back by the machines again. One place I play has 46 slot machines that are beatable, but last time I was there, only one was +EV, it was only worth about +$10-15, and someone was playing it. Most places I go have fewer than 10 machines even worth looking at. Generally, if I'm on the road somewhere, I tend to pick up enough EV off of machines (including VP) to maybe cover my room expenses if I'm lucky. Aside from the relatively low EV, the other issue for many people is variance. Different machines/plays have different risk profiles, but in general the variance is going to be high. The bottom line is you're still playing a slot for some significant number of spins, often at max bet, so you will have high variance. For a $100 EV play, it's typical for the standard deviation to be on the order of $500-1000 or more. Overall, that's a decent bet if you have a sufficient bankroll, but I've seen people that didn't understand the risk attempt to take down a play without having the proper bankroll and go busto because of it.

Bottom line is that yes it is plausible that this guy is legit. There are people that do this professionally, although there aren't very many that are successful. My friend did it for years and knew a handful of guys in the business, but has more recently converted to other AP methods because the machines simply aren't worth that much. If you know the tricks of the trade, you can add a few bucks worth of EV to your dead time in the casinos, but it's really not something worth actively seeking to pursue as a pro.

I agree what he said. The video made perfect sense...like you said though, this **** would just take way too long, depending on where you live. I don't want to travel miles to a casino to find a) no bonuses/jackpots about to hit b) I live in a smaller state where casinos are "meh." In that one video he was talking about the poker machines, does he just search for all the ones where there were multipliers for a hand? Was that the +EV part?

Actually I just realized I was reading the second link in this thread, not the first one. The first guy is for sure legit. I am aware of some of the games he listed and how they were beatable, but there are a few new names on that list that I was unaware of. Some of the older games he listed were worth quite a bit when they first came out. However, his example is calculated incorrectly and is overly pessimistic. That QS machine at $48 is actually worth $39. Problem is, by the time those machines get +EV, the jackpot is so close to paying off that it is extremely rare for someone to get up from the machine. At this point, your average coin in before it hits is only $100, so realistically as long as someone is willing to feed in a couple of twenties, they will hit it before they bust out (coin in is your bet times the number of spins, so $100 coin in doesn't mean you lose $100, only that you bet $100). Once they've invested a few bucks, they aren't getting up when it's this close. Also, these machines rarely have a 1% meter. You are lucky if it is 0.5%. I've seen plenty that are 0.2% for the small jackpot and 0.1% for the top. These anemic meters make the game all but unplayable.

Essentially, yes, but he left out a critical part of this play. The Ultimate X bonus feature is activated when you play max credits, which is double the bet of a normal VP game (10 credits per line). If you hit a winning hand while playing max bet, it will activate the multiplier for that line on the next hand. The key is it is paid for on the previous hand, so when you find a multiplier, you should play that game for 5 credits per hand instead of 10. You get the benefit of the multiplier that somebody else paid for. This is another one that I will check, but generally there is some local hustler that keeps these multipliers cleared off of the machines. Sometimes you will see them stalking these machines, grinding out a few bucks/hr. If you find a machine at a place with nobody there "in the know", sometimes you can find a decent amount of value on these machines, but generally it's not that much. But, it's quick and easy to check, so I still check them. Lots of places only have these up to a $0.25 denomination, but I've found some decent plays at places with $0.50 and $1 coins. A $1 10-line game would cost $50/spin, but you only need to spin it once. I think the best one of these I found had about $80 worth of multipliers on it, which isn't bad for a few minutes effort, but after you clear them when you first arrive, you're just taking them as people play them and leave, so it really is a grind to try to make more out of this than just a quick check when you're in the area.


BTW, by leaving out details on this video and by using incorrect math on the quick strick video, I'm convinced that he's beating the games, but I'm not convinced he fully understands the math and I'm not convinced he is actually trying to disclose everything he knows. Still trying to figure out this guy's angle here. Maybe trying to drive traffic to his new Youtube channel for ad money? Seems like he'd make more just grinding the machines, although admittedly that gets boring very quickly.


Edit: BTW, I've been to every casino in Kansas except White Cloud and I agree it's pretty mediocre at best. There were a couple of decent countable BJ games, but no games of any kind that would make it worth a return trip for me. If I lived there, I'd probably play nothing but poker.

Probably the best information available for beating the Pokies!

http://tina11white.multiply.com/jour...t_Slot_Devices

Several folks adore to attempt their luck with slot devices but only a handful of do well at hitting the jackpot. Luck plays a massive part in deciding payouts on a slot machine even so, there are people that strategy and use easy strategies to beat slot devices. The greatest way you can boost your chance of profitable is by dividing your bankroll in accordance with the range of days you program to gamble and the hours you devote on betting sessions. Most folks that do not strategize and plan utilization of their bankroll are at threat of exhausting their dollars swiftly. To begin with, you've acquired to understand there are distinct kinds of devices that 1 can use to attempt their luck.

There are many slots that supply a greatest bet with 10 spins per moment and supply high payouts. Individuals can use straightforward strategies to defeat pokie devices by looking for suggestions and info for gambling fanatics. Beneficial information about how to decide on a slot machine can
increase your possibility of profitable. Analysis unveils that people that are patient and seldom get annoyed are the ones that luck favors on slot devices. Men and women could discover it absurd to imagine this but it is true. A RNG in slot devices displays figures randomly. It really is a precise fraction that establishes winning symbols or combinations.

People that get irritated or discouraged are probable to stroll absent from a slot believing there is no hope, while a affected person person will perform on that machine believing there is a likelihood, it really is that variation in mindset amongst individuals that can determine profitable or losing. Gamers can use basic strategies to beat slots by studying the payout historical past of devices of diverse denominations. In every single casino there are machines that offer high winning payouts regularly. Pokie devices that have a high payout background document are desired since odds of winning are larger.

One particula
r of the easiest techniques to defeat slots, also acknowledged as pokies is to cease on a winning be aware and dollars your credits. Most times gamers make the error of not checking out even after registering a number of wins. Greed has ruined lives of a number of slot device players. Wise pokie players usually preserve their credit score meter activated to preserve a near eye on in which they stand. By no means let your credits accumulate on slot devices. Numerous internet sites dedicated to gambling and casinos offer you thorough information and concepts on strategies to beat pokie machines. Keep in mind, there is no definitive technique or technique to defeat a slots, all you have to do is perform smartly with your bankroll and hope for the ideal.


"By no means let your credits accumulate on slot devices."

Yes, I have mastered this concept. Damn you Pokies!

Isn't the fundamental problem with slot AP that you don't always know the probability of hitting the big jackpot, and therefore don't know the EV gain. Even assuming you know the base EV of the game, which isn't necessarily the case?

Video Poker's odds can only be calculated because of regulations that require the cards to play like a deck of cards.

I'm almost positive that the base EV of the game can be looked up. Casinos are required to publish such numbers, even if it's buried somewhere in a governmental report.

I'm very sure that the probabilities of hitting various combinations is known, although I'm unsure whether that's a result of casinos (or manufacturers) being forced to disclose the numbers or a result of very bored individuals figuring it out statistically.

For example, The Wizard of Odds has a page on slot machine probabilities, although in the footnotes he says his source is anonymous.

Casinos are often required to publish return summaries to state governments on the whole, but I'm pretty sure most state governments don't require all machines payouts to be disclosed on a regular basis. In Missouri, my state, the casino is only expected to give a report of each table game "hold %age" and the return %age for each slot denomination for general public display (aka internet). They lump video poker in for these numbers... The two casinos closest to my house both have penny slots that return at 87.5%...yay.

Things like actual PAR sheets are a bitch to find publicly. See below for an example of a PAR sheet.


http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/8200%20bally.pdf

In Missouri, some of this info is available at the casino upon request according to state gaming law, I might have to try to bug someone about it next time and see what all they have...haha

Yeah, not all slot machines even of the same type will have the same expected return. Still, it's absolutely possible to be true, though most people consider slot and VP play as tools in the AP playbook - not the end-all be-all.

U cannot beat any slot machine that does not have progressives of some sort. End of story

Slots have been beaten when there was some kind of programming fault. Sometimes this is just incompetence (RNG resets itself periodically for example, or the payout mechanism scews up) or sometimes its a backdoor put there by the programmer-imagine you design a slot machine, wouldn't you like to leave yourself an out in case you get fired?

Depends on how you look at it imo.

Propperly programmed slot machines which work with true Random Number Generators are in theory unbeatable. But in reality, there are a couple of well-documented cases of players who were able to trick slots into paying them out much more then allowed from a programmation point of view.

Most known cases are people finding software glitches and using it in their favor. But there is one particular case which only happened recently in period 2009-2018; the case of Alex, a Russian guy who managed to predict the spin outcome on certains slots. He literally made millions doing this on Novomatic slot machines. (source on Wired)

They way he did it was through indentifying slots which were using PRNG (Pseudo Random Number Generators) algorithms. And he was able to use this many years to his advange and made the slot RTP over 120%. Interesting is that his strategy wasn’t technically illegal in many jurisdictions.

Read up on it, it's a really interesting case. I was surprised this wasn't picked up by international news channels

I don't see how even a good PRNG implementation would be realistically exploitable. How could you exploit an algorithm like the Mersenne Twister? Is there an exploit which wouldn't require knowing the current, or at least approximate state of the RNG, and how would you figure that out? If you knew the state at one point of time, then assuming the state advances a bunch of times per second rather than just waiting for the next spin, one could time the next spin when the distribution of likely payouts is favorable. I have no idea how it would be possible to figure out the state of a modern PRNG algorithm.

The exploitable slots do not have good PRNG implementation. They were built 10-20 years ago by bad/lazy programmers.

Anyone familiar with the old slot game Triple Fortune Dragon? Curious if there is any information about the game i.e. how the short term holds, immediate pay outs, and jackpots function exactly. Or statistics/info about the different possible jackpots available in the game. Even vague ideas would be useful to me.