I'm confused. Isn't this how blackjack is supposed to work?

And that right there is more than enough to dismiss you as a kook without a clue. Try harder next time.

This was all I needed to know.

Really? Just like a few other posters here you guys feel the need to rag on others without offering anything of substance. Perhaps you just posting to get your ratings/rankings up, how sad!!!

Before the CSMs even shoes with 6-8 decks (hand shuffled) the punters always felt the game was fair and back then it was EV+ to solid strategy players without the need for card counting and the ones who mastered the counting did even better. Nowdays you have to admit the game has become definate EV- irrespective of strategy and the "bad beats" more common place.

You guys obviously avoiding the most important fact here and that is WHY THE NEED FOR THE CSM TO BE CONNECTED TO A COMPUTER? Its obvious you havnt even noticed the USB type cable connected to the machine apart from the power source wich should be the only wiring a ligit CSM needs. No my "friend", before calling people kooks reply to the whole thread, dont just take a piece of the post and consider yourself clever, you impressing no-one!!!

www.gamblersanonymous.org

Wait pikes, how does blackjack dealt from a shoe get +EV for the player without counting? I know other techinques exist for advantage play but what are you talking about?

IF you are not counting, why does the number of decks matter?

You know, the autoshufflers also are rigged. A computer inside deals out action flops to drive up the rake.

Even if a computer was able to create a situation where say, the dealer pushed a little button behind that says that there are 3 players at the table, and then it could spit out three 15s and pull a 20 for itself, there is no way it could take into account the fact that half the people would stay on 16 and half would hit. Others have already responded to you with specific examples, like a drunky who throws down bets last minute. But you haven't responded to those.

You also say if you play by casino rules of hit on 16 or less and stay on 17 or more that the dealer ends up pulling a winning hand more than it should when you end up with 17. This such a random and bizarre observation that I can't help but assume that it's completely based on your selective memory of this happening many times over a short period. Well I can tell you that after playing and running blackjack for years, you see EVERYTHING. Streaks of every kind, 7 card 21s, times when the dealer pulls out a winner by 1 point 10 hands in a row, whatever. It happens.

Also, if that's your blackjack strategy to just hit on 16 or less, it's terrible and makes me want to discount whatever you have to say. Are you aware that this is bad strategy?

My short comment to you before was in response to your saying that you're always looking for cheating/conspiracy theories. This weakens your argument, because it tells me that you are someone who looks for, and therefore will find, certain things suspicious more often than someone with a more unbiased view. Frankly, you sound like a nut job.

Or you could be right and the big, bad computers are after you and can totally read your thoughts, sweetheart.

By the way, if you see my number of posts, it's pretty obvious that I'm someone who just doesn't post that much, and have about as much interest in getting my post count up as you do in making a rational argument.

So true! I once saw two hands in a row where both players made two pair! Better just stick to roulette, Pikes. Magnets, tho...

The house had a slight edge before CSMs came along but these machines just upped it some more. This is the first gambling related forum where I've read someone seriously suggest they can be beat too. I have my doubts.

Sigh!!! Let me try make this simple for you to understand then.
In my 1st post in this thread I clearly said "if you plat by the house rules" emphasis on IF clearly not stating that this is my strategy, but stating a hypothetical.
BJ should be +EV based purely on playing by the same rules as the houseand naturals. You should win 50% and the house 50 % over a million hands the only thing is when they win a natural they take 1 bet where as when you win you get paid 3-2.
Obviously its not quite that simple but for those with a sence of logic this should make some sence. The house has introduced other bets to swing it in their favour like doubling down, splitting, and the worst of all insurance. Now if you are idiotic enough to double every 9/10/11 or split every pair and take insurance every time an A is shown then the casino has achieved its purpose and they will kill you every time you sit. The other thing counting in favour of the house is that you have to act 1st leaving you -EV if you dont have a solid strategy
Now strategy can be discussed endlessly about why its better to split 88 vs 7 but ultimately bets like that would only get you even money vs a loss in most cases as most players tend to forget the most fundamental that you only have around 38% 10s and drawing 2 cards unltimately will leave you at least one of these hands worse off giving you even money at best, but this is still a wiser decission than splitting As as there you ONLY get 1 card per A so there you get even money at best IF you get one 10 but again over 60% of the cards may leave you dominated as you cant draw any further. I believe its still better to draw 2 cards as 1 wont be a 10 so AA+10+5 could be a better result than 21 and 16 and heaven forbid you ended up with 12 and 13 wich is more likely with the CSMs

Now my UNANSWERED question still remains- WHY THE NEED FOR ANY OTHER CABLE THAN A POWER CABLE LINKED TO THE CSM? And yes I still believe that the machine can be programmed especially based on boxes played with a variance of 1/2 more/less boxes for ultimate outcome for the house in those scenarios. The old adage of "there are none as blind as those who dont WANT to see" springs to mind. Have none of you noticed the cameras over every table recording everything going on (as well as allowing the rigger to punch numbers upstairs) and anyone with a micro knowldge of computers have to agree that this rigging/cheating is more than just possible?

In another post I also mentioned the 1 table offering hand shuffled shoe was packed for obvious reasons. Of articles written by pros most of them advise to stay away from CSMs and you are more than welcome to go play those. My observations was merely confirmed by these pros.
Still the question remains (unanswered) WHY THE NEED FOR ANY OTHER CABLES LINKED TO THE CSM OTHER THAN A POWER CABLE

But you aren't playing by the same rules. The rules are devised to create a house advantage.

The house playing second helps them. If you bust, they don't get an *opportunity* to bust.

WE can continue this tennis match for months about rules and strategy and house advantage but you all in your infinate wisdom avoiding the real issue.

Why the need to link the machine to a computer if not for rigging/cheating purposes? The question is can anyone explain the reason for cabling other than a power source linked to the CSM?

Seek professional help.

You should ask Shufflemaster themselves, maybe they will respond back.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...huffle-276002/

LOL, have you bothered reading the posts in this link? Or are you confirming what I am saying? Dont quite know with you people any more. Read that whole post and where there is smoke there is a fire.

Rag as much as you want I am clearly not alone in this line of thought and untill someone can answer the question you wont find me close to a CSM.

Are you BiloxiPlayer?

The machines have USB cables attached to them for software updates, troubleshooting, and overall game protection. As the cards are coming out, it would be possible for a camera or other mechanism to identify each card. This information can then be combined with in table RFID readers which are monitoring the player's wagers. The casino now has an accurate record of your entire session. This could be used to determine comps, dealer accuracy, betting trends, and so on.

There's plenty of logical explanations on why a USB cable could be attached, without cheating. Welcome to 2013.

Can you explain why the house would rig a game that is inherently already rigged in their favor?

I don't think you understand how blackjack works.

O? then do enlighten us

UHM sorry, didnt see u actually agree that its rigged "already RIGGED in their favour"

Um, it's rigged in that the rules, as published, are in their favor, dummy.

They don't need to cheat to sucker people like you into giving them your money.

They don't, but cheating is not that uncommon at blackjack.

I doubt csm's are designed as cheating devices. I'm much less sure that the nature of the card distribution is random and has no effect on the odds.

I've heard a number of competent AP's mention the inability of these machines to reverse the card order, as the stripping with a human shuffle accomplishes. If there is substance to that rumour, then the true odds of a card appearing in the nth position wouldn't be random.

ITT we completely ignore the double bust property.