So I have been playing online since the party poker days and played professionally for a few years before black Friday. Then just mostly for fun. I am in prison at a federal camp for money laundering. I get out in 2026 hopefully. So I just started getting back into poker in here but the games are SOOO much different. The dynamic is very bizarre. People will call river value bets so light because for some reason it makes you a coward if you fold too much and the worst thing to happen to someone is to get bluffed. The whole macho mentality is probably where most of that stems from.

I started a similar thread in live NL asking how beatable 10% take is in a game where high variance games are dealt and got a lot of questions regarding prison and poker. I am at a minimum security camp with mostly white collar guys some of which had American Greed episodes done on them. The field in these games is super soft nobody is positionally aware and nobody is keeping track of the pot sizes. There's only one other online pro who is here for a coke conspiracy he and I deal PLO and NL whenever we have the button the rest of the games are pretty crazy double even triple boards with 5 hole card hands. My out date is 2026 assuming I don't lose any good time. Everyone has a phone here but you can lose good time if you get caught with one. The cops here are too busy chasing down the contraband packs that come over the fence and inmates using K2 to care about poker games.

I grew up in San Diego and have a degree in biotechnology. I have been married 17 years and wife is in law school. I never thought I would be posting on here from prison.

So far Im playing about 25 hours a week at 1/2 am up about $640 in cash apps and about $70 in blue fin bags of tuna. Mostly eat fish for the protein as food here is trash. Cigarettes are banned in prison but they are big money here. An Oz of tobacco sells for about $100 w papers and $80 without lol. It's crazy how lucrative the contraband trade is here. Guys have people go to the store and buy 100 vapes at $10 a pop and sell each vape for $150 it's crazy these guys leave with more money than they came in with. Since it's a camp there's a lot of wire fraud white collar guys who run the tables and run sports books here.

No real gangs at a camp. What few gang members who are here are likely gang drop outs because the higher security prisons have a lot of politics so numbers are very important. If a gang member has security classification points low enough to go to a camp they are advised to get in as many fights and or do whatever it takes to be shipped to higher security if they want to "stay down for the cause." I know it sounds crazy.

The hardest part about adjusting to these games is not being able to run Sims or look at my database for problem hands. Online poker kind of spoiled me in that sense as I have probably played 1M hands online and maybe 2k hands live. I have never done one of these before so I hope that's enough about me for some questions.

hey.

you ever see anyone bet more than they could afford to lose in there? was it kinda like there were other ways to pay it back type things?? what did you end up doing to them / see happen, and did you get the sense they liked it?

alternatively, if you were you ever in that situation and how was the experience for you? id imagine it would be scary but kind of exhilarating? is it usually smaller weak white guys losing to more powerful muscular guys and just getting overpowered, or run pretty fairly

thanks

does a certain gang or ethnicity run the poker tables or is it more like anyone can start a table and begin raking pots and if so, do you have to pay tax and to whom?

Here in Texas some gangs wont allow certain people to play with other certain people (racism). Is it like that where you are?

Yes a lot of people just can't gamble in prison. Some guys are so scared of getting bluffed or so board they will tilt really bad and start jamming pre w any cards. The reason a specific group runs the tables is because people will sometimes gamble more than they can afford and "lock it up" which is what they call running to a corrections officer saying they are scared for their life. At which time they are put in solitary until either the inmate gets transferred to another facility or makes some arrangements to pay. The group who runs the tables and makes the 10% rake are responsible for making sure winners get paid no matter what. That's basically what they are charging the 10% for even though it's rare that a player locks it up so the guys running the game make about $1k a week. If you lose you only pay 70% of what you lose sometimes less if it's a frequent player.
So its kind of a rakeback for losers.

In regards to fights and violence the last 3 years have shown me that ANYONE can be capable of ANYTHING. I have seen short skinny guys absolutely destroy someone who is 3 times their size. Although at a camp the violence is pretty rare just a few punches and it breaks up. At higher security prisons I have heard horrific stories. USP max prisons like Bomont or Big Sandy if a guy tries to lock it up the COs will usually tell them they can't do anything unless they are actually assaulted. I heard one guy did that and was stoked to the ground with a home made spear make from a broom stick. Some USP prisons have a "no hands" policy. Meaning only knives can be used.

Most lower security prisons have a "hands laid debt paid" policy. So once a punch is thrown at the guy who owes he just cashed him out. I have imagine at the higher security prisons where you have guys with serious money like Gene Gotti the hands laid policy isn't enough which is why they have a no hands policy. So people are more likely to act right if a knife is going to be involved.

Prison even at the camp level is VERY political. Such that each race is in charge of "taking out their own trash." So if a black guy owes me money I have to go to his rep to first resolve it. If it's not That race is responsible for making it right and smashing the guy who is no good off the yard. The politics increases exponentially as you go up from a camp. So some times you will have a guy who has been locked up for 30 years and managed to work his way down to a camp and he might not be okay with how things are handled at a camp because at a USP it's much more strict. Mandatory workouts, shadows who come with you if you have to talk to a cop, etc.

Lastly, no none of this has been exhilarating. I learned a lot about how people can become institutionalized. I can't wait to get out and never come back.

At a camp the tables are run by the blacks the surenos and the whites. The blacks table is the high stakes table where people can get up to $10k lines of credit. I have only played in that game a few times and I only bought in for $500. I only sat down because I saw two of the guys on monkey tilt and basically quit as soon as they left. Still a bum hunting nit at heart I guess.

In regards to the taxes I only saw that at the higher security jails when I was still pre-trial awaiting sentencing. Basically the Surenos will charge their gang members "rent" or tax from any hustle they have. Poker table tattooing, commissary store etc. That rent goes to the "big homies" doing life in the max. I have only seen that with the Surenos but I heard in the Midwest or east Coast the Gangster Disciples, Vice Lords and Latin Kings have the same business model. At a camp "real validated" active gang members are never allowed to have custody points to go to a minimum security camp.

Up to 10k? That's quite a lot, I imagine some are getting in way over their head in that game?

Are they using any discretion with who's given that much credit?

The 10% rake is uncapped? If so this force you to play pretty nitty?

Youre in the wrong kinda forum Twink...

?

(:

yeah i get all that but I heard sometimes theres sexual violence too? have you actually seen that happen(or more), say over a debt/ poker game?
like id assume that's kinda how someone might be forced to pay off debts, and was kinda curious about the psychology of the "victim" in that circumstance because i saw that it can really mess with their head because they kinda end up liking it in a way, or at least react physically to it ina positive way.. which leaves a lot of Doubt and confusion in their mind , you know?
could you speak to that at all

Yeah it's 10% uncapped and you really can't play too nitty because some of the games are 5 card with 3 boards which basically forces multiway pots which means more rake for them. Yeah to get in the big game credit is built over time.

All those sex things pretty much only happen at higher security prisons. We have a few guys here a few trannies as well. Although at a camp you have to have a max of 10 years left to do. So nobody is really going down that road. When I was pre trial at the county jails I did see a few guys get with trannies and most of them file PRIA charges in order to get less time saying they were assaulted. Again at a camp we don't see any of that.

ROFL!!

how much money did you launder? how'd you do it? why did you do it? did you have priors?

damn that's super nasty! when that was happening what did you see? was it like hidden or you caught visuals, what kind of sounds did you hear?
and is that normal with the tranny stuff in there to just do mouth, or do they usually do all the way?
damn

Dude wtf. Why is **** seks so interesting for u? 'What sounds did you hear?' Lmao.

I was trading crypto and during the AMC/GameStop short squeeze and Shiba pump I was trading a lot and traded some of other people's money. I was unaware where the funds were from but it all honesty I had a feeling they were ill gotten but greed got the better of me. When it rains it pours and I didn't have the sense to ask questions because I didn't want them to go elsewhere.... again....greed. In retrospect while cryptocurrency is pseudo anonymous its not totally anonymous and when people are facing time they talk. That's how I got jammed up. I got told on by people who were facing a lot of time for drugs. So they got me for layering and structuring financial transactions.

I have never been in trouble before which is why I went to a camp I think. I have a degree in biotechnology that will pretty much be worthless as a felon and it seems online poker is dead. So it's hard to say what I am going to do when I get out. There's a lot of people here who have a lot to teach as far as forex and real estate. Hope to learn all I can. By the time I get out I am hoping my wife is done with law school and I can find a field I enjoy.

Did you ever consider playing poker full time when you get out? Great money to be made if you get good at it and have a steady stream of games to play in.

Yeah, why not consider transitioning to live poker upon release, OP? Given your stated experience of 1m hands online compared to 2k live, you could approach the rest of your term as 'job training'...though it sounds like game-specific lessons learned at your prison camp may have to be quickly forgotten at the casino or home game.

Are you aware of the book 'Sentence: Ten Years and a Thousand Books in Prison'?? I read said book a couple years back, and I highly recommend it to anyone, but especially to someone either personally incarcerated or someone who works as a correctional officer (I know quite a few people who fall into the latter category, though none of them are particularly inclined to read, and so I think my recommendation(s) of the book fell on deaf ears there). The book is a memoir from a heroin-addicted New York City journalist who served ten years for robbing several people at knifepoint to score money for drugs. He resolved to make the most of his time by working out as much as possible and reading as many books as possible. He has a Russian ethnic background despite his French surname, so his reading list was a little heavier on Russian lit than mine would be. But it's also pretty appropriate to read Dostoevsky while imprisoned. His book mixes reflections on his reading with observations on life in prison; there is zero romanticization of prison life contained within. I read the book while I was facing a pandemic-delayed DWAI charge with a max sentence of 15 days in the county holding center, but this book had me dead set on never setting foot in a correctional facility of any kind, ever. One of my poker buddies is an ex -NYS trooper who somehow managed to achieve supernova status on Stars while holding down that job, and he once remarked to me, 'Prison should be way more of a deterrent than it actually is.' Between what I learned from the book I recommended and what I occasionally have overheard while playing cards with my CO friends/acquaintances, I now have a better appreciation for just how awful life is behind those walls. My one night at the holding center in the summer of '06 for disorderly conduct didn't teach me the lesson as effectively, even though I was panicky and asking for Xanax, lol.

Good luck enduring your remaining time and have a post-release life that will in hindsight make this horrific interlude seem worth it.

Did you consider going to trial? Knowledge that the laundered money is crime proceeds is a required element of the crime.

Are all three games (high, medium and low) dealers choice, no matter what you choose to play when you have the button?

Yeah like I said before I was playing full time back in the full tilt poker stars days. Playing live is kinda like watching paint dry when you are use to multi tabling. I know I love the game enough to play full time and love solver work but I am guessing when I get out I will have a PO who wants me to have a real job. Another poker pro is here with me and he plans on dealing cards for a check stub but playing live in private games in LA and Vegas which isn't a bad idea. I am just shocked now that I have a phone to catch up on the last 3 years I missed how much solvers have changed the game.

Yes of the three tables the highest stakes is the blacks and Pisa table which they share all of those are dealers choice with wild cards games included which is a joke IMO. The other two tables are ran by the whites sadly the smallest stakes is the only one that has rake capped. So far my biggest value has come from extreme game selection waiting for guys to tilt then sitting down to play.

No trial was out of the question. The max for money laundering is 20 years and it's been my experience if the feds come for you they rarely miss. I think they have a 98% conviction rate if you don't calculate the high number of pleas I believe it's still 94%. It's sad that if you go to trial you have to pay the "trial tax" of facing much more time.

I curious to ask your case seems very outside the norm. Most players who start playing live at low stakes struggle getting past those stakes. How long were you playing for while still working before you made the switch? I used to work in the fraud department at PayPal before I quit to start playing full time. I feel like the fact I was playing online and had the advantages of rakeback and multi tables. I believe if I was to play live my best chances of making it would be to play PLO as it seems NL becomes more solved every year thus making game selection more difficult.

While your record will prevent you from getting a job with a company like Merck or J&J, I would look for opportunities in smaller startups or with someone like Martin Shkreli's group who might actually like your record and crypto background