+1, kind of a weird to make that comment and not address any specific points, i thought DC made some of the best posts in this thread.

I think some of you guys are taking the points I made too literally. There are unique paths and exceptions to everything. These are general observations on where my social circle and acquaintances are heading. It's a matter of increasing your odds, versus decreasing your odds. For each of your scenarios, I can pick someone out I know that has done exactly as you said - but exceptions don't prove the rule.

Naj is right that there are plenty of young women who are willing to marry up. But do you really want to be with a woman who sees you as her ticket to marry up? To get laid, excellent. To have any sort of relationship with, hell no.

In that statement there is also the presumption that you will be something that women want to marry up to. Every 20 year old in their first office job thinks that they will work hard and each of them will become upper management making lots of money in 5-10 years. But it's a pyramid. For every guy at the top, there are 50 that didn't get there and it's usually not for the lack of trying. What is your advice to the 49?

I already addressed the health and image issue and how badly most people fare with their battle with time. Again, this doesn't mean that I don't know guys with great genes who are hitting 40, rarely exercise, but still have a 2X year old face and 6 pack even though they eat junk food all week. Is that going to be you? It could be. But I wouldn't count on it - even if you go to gym.

Naj, Truthsayer addressed some of the things you wrote and for some things we disagree, but for other things you are misreading what we are trying to say. (the 27-29 single women bit, for example.)

I will add one more thing that - again - is a generality that I think applies to most people.

The older you get, the harder it is to developer really close friendships. Most of your very close friendships will be formed early in your life (childhood, high school, university/military) ... There might be exceptions for other events that occur later in life that join people as they go through something extraordinary.

Anyway...

You will meet plenty of friends when you get older too, but very few will feel nearly as close. They will often be "activity partner" variety. Highly compartmentalized, limited to only a small part of your life.

So;

Make sure you keep up and cultivate your old friendships instead of letting them wither as years go by. This can be very easy to overlook.

***

A corollary of this is that the older you get, your mindset changes and that in itself makes it harder to find a mate. It's not just pure odds of available women to available men that are working against you. Your mindset is working against you, too. It is probably related to how we make very close friends - as mentioned above - and for similar reason(s) it becomes harder the older you get.

That's my theory, anyway. Maybe we become more set in our ways as we get older. Maybe we know better what we want and it is harder for anyone to live up to our criteria. Maybe it's a lot easier to marry young and stupid and discover adult life together, than it is to live an adult life and find someone who gels well with your ideas...

I'm not sure. But I do think that marriage-age issue is not just external. It is also internal - for both sides.

dc_publius and wil318466 nailing this thread IMO, some great advice from both of them.

Squat ATG bro

This sounds like you've been to multiple Carrot Top shows.

could not agree more... an acquaintence sp? of mine, who was actually poor, was so proud of his expensive watch and his $300 jeans. but i'm not sure anyone else was aware of them at all (watch wasn't a rolex which many would be knkow). and it was in a mid-sized midwestern city where no one cared/knew about any of that stuff anyway.

i knew a nice looking girl i would see about every 4 months for years. she was always wearing the same shoes. it didn't bother me one bit. in fact, i think it was an indicator she'd be someone good to get involved with..... this focus on more and more better stuff is mostly to satisfy ourselves. no one else really cares. and yes, i have a big problem with the syndrome myself.

if only people would put the same time/effort/money into really improving themselves.

FWIW, i find girls love guys that are much older. and would probably go for older guys alot more if they didn't have to listen to their friends/family complain about it constantly ("why is your BF so old?"..

asked a friend of mine who dates tons of women. he basically said that was 100% true. i.e. they generally don't go for way older guys but they would if they didn't have to deal with so much negative judgement.

i could be way off......... definitely much older guys offer something completely different from what they are presented with every day. and i do think the girl has to be of a minimum age. 23-24??

2% of Americans live in NYC metro area [22m alone], LA, Houston, Miami, Boston, Philly, Vegas, Dallas, Chicago? Not including easily reachable suburbs like LI, Main Line, Henderson...et al.

How many brain tumors did you have for breakfast? Eleventeen?

I did take the black and white words you wrote at face value, yes.

FTR, I do think you are a good poster. Everyone has an off day. I didn't buy FB at ~$17 because I waited for it to drop another $0.25. I'm a moron.

Yes.

Your social circle is irrelevant to whether or not young women like marrying older, more successful men. In fact, the VAST majority of the evidence is against you. Younger, hotter, more normal women like marrying older, more confident, well-dressed, successful men. Period. End of story. Ceteris paribus.

THIS IS THE PART THAT IS COMPLETE AND UTTER BULL $4!t.

I have a brilliant, beautiful female friend, Irish lass, probably a solid 9.5 who is getting her Ph.D in Astrophysics. So....if she dates an older, wiser [not smarter], successful man in NYC it's because she's looking for the 'Golden Ticket' like fcuking Willy Wonka?!? IS THIS REAL LYFE?

You know what a 'nice date' is to the 21-yr old models in Manhattan? 2 drinks at a rooftop bar, and maybe some decent Mexican with fresh guac, or midrange sushi, or g..d.... Shake Shack. Not kidding. [much less the 18, 19, 20 yr olds...some of them don't even know what bourbon is.]

Women get hit 10x harder than men. Just walk around NYC, Miami, Houston, Montreal, LV, LA, Barcelona, Rome, Atlanta, ad infinitum.

So...if women age at a much faster RELATIVE rate than guys [fairly inarguable, exceptions obvs] why on EARTH would you marry someone in your MBA/JD/etc class who is the same age or god forbid older?

Look, I'm not saying if you find your 'One True Love' [ahahahahah] that you shouldn't marry her. Of course: Date, live with, engage, and then marry her if she's The One.

My bff did: met frosh year, moved in soph year, lived together 3 years, engaged, married within a year, 4 degrees, 3 kids and ~2 decades later they are still happy.

It happens. NOT very often.

FTR, I'm not 'blaming' girls/women for any of this. I sure as hell didn't know who I was or what I wanted at 19, 21, 23, 25...29 I started to have more of an idea and, coincidentally, that was pretty much when women start throwing themselves at you.
...but you really think they know at that age either??? I guarantee you they do not. 1 in a million does.

Hell, in Houston, Dallas, Carolinas, lots of the Deep South, girls are definitely looking to date older guys. Not for money: plenty of rich trust funders that are 21...25... in any major city. I work with some of those families, for several years now. Girls *know* those guys are getting $10m or 20 or 75msoon just from the last name alone...they don't do as well as you think with the 'normal, undamaged' women.

Apologies if I misinterpreted the remarks about 27-29 cohort. Still not 100% sure what was originally meant, but I'll take the blame.

In a contest of equally attractive guys (socially, physically, economically) the older guys absolutely crush with younger women and it's not even close.

1000% agree. Glad we're on the same page again.

Agree, but, FTR again, custom-made clothes look and feel wayyyyy better. AINEC.

Also 110% correct. And, no, they start at 21...20....19. At least they do these days in major cities.

Again, there is NO difference to them btw 23 and 34 and 21 and...or 20 and.... or 23 and 36. Obvs, it helps if you look younger, not older. But if you don't have grey hair....they really have no clue. Girls who were born after I graduated college often ask me if I'm 26. Like....around 50% of the time.

Sure, it's dark. We're in a bar. Maybe 1-2 drinks in. But c'mon! You'd think the suit and tie would up the # some.

"Math class is tough."

Please detail this evidence? Most people marry around their own age. You live in a finance/east coast sociopath bubble. The real world doesn't functional like wealthy successful Manhattan.

Is there a set of women for whom age means less than success? Yes. Is it the norm? No. They are a small fraction. If you look at any survey of acceptable dating age for women <25, most do not want a man over 30. Virtually none want a man over 35. You'll always get the whores, the damaged, the gold diggers, the emotinally depraved, the daddy issues, the fearful, and the smart driven ones like your friend, with little sense of life, but those relationships are usually shallow, and end badly once you get older.

Again it's about what makes you happy. If you're rich and successful you can always get a young damaged trophy wife. Most people want something more.

I am certainly not nearly as attractive as the male models they shoot with all day. Even if ~70% of them are gay...that leaves a lot of really, really hot guys with perfect bodies they've been literally wrapped around all day that are the same age.

Yet they are calling me. Why? I mean, I do fine but there are plenty of guys 10 years younger than me in NYC who are absolutely killing it.

So...not looks. Not money. Dress helps, but lots of guys dress well [which means diff things to diff girls anyway.] It can't just be because I can spell and pronounce Louboutin. Maybe I'm just lucky?

Variance? Naj on a heater!

On a serious note, being a 20 year old, I find this thread very helpful. It has made me re-think some of the stuff i want to do/where i want to be and worry a little less of "finding someone"

I have yet to ever have a girlfriend, have plenty of K's though so i cant really complain but it would be nice to have a female companion that you could just chill with and do stuff with.

agreed. i had some custom suits and they fit so well... also, expensive suits are warm in winter, cool in summer. cheap stuff is the opposite.

How did this become a dating/marriage advice thread?

Which brings me to the one piece of advice I feel like I wish I had given myself at age 25.

Don't worry about the conventional life that everyone thinks they're supposed to have. Don't worry much about meeting your soulmate, having kids, and the like.

Instead, worry about what you, (yes YOU and absolutely no one else) truly want out of your life. Then work on creating that life every moment you live.

Your goal should be to be happy and live the most authentic life you can for you, because in the end (and this is very important), every life is unique and no one way to live is any better or worse than another way to live.

For some, close monogamous relationships are going to be the best way to their happiness, but for other's this could be VERY far from the case.

There are happy single people, happy married people, and miserable people of both groups.

Happiness come from within and only YOU can control your life and how you feel about it.

Now, go live your life, times a wasting!

Your baldly false assertions continue to be hilarious. And I'm supposed to give *you* proof of how the real world works?

Self-confident, charming, well-dressed, relaxed, comfortable in their own skin, non-douchebags, non-bros, non-potheads tend to be older, if not much older than the reverse. [How you define 'much,' etc 5-10 years+, 15-20 is not uncommon either].

Since you are quoting these mythical 'studies,' let's see the links: directly, JSTOR, etc, peer-reviewed.

Since early June, I have been on the biggest heater of my life. Really only one time comparable, and...it was nothing like this. Maybe I'll post some photos from my SoBe rooftop suite Friday. I hear there's a nice ocean view.

Oh: as for the 'damaged, young, gold-diggers' this one specifically told me *not* to buy her something for the trip or while we're there. [I mean aside from dinner/drinks obvs].

Do not ever, ever worry about finding someone by a certain age if you're a guy. Why on earth would you settle? WHY?!?!?

fwiw, if I were broke and 25 again, I'd buy a really nice pair of shoes, possibly hand-made, before anything else if I was looking for girls.

In post #135 I'd agree with almost everything that was said.

In post #148 I'd disagree.

This thread is somewhat strange because everyone is using their own experiences as truth. Everyone's situation and perception differs depending on life their particular experiences and variables.

If you make a table with different variables being attractiveness, personality, wealth, intelligence, you'll get many different opinions, and each may be right in their own category. This doesn't mean it should apply to all.

How old are u NAJ?

Coming to Miami this weekend ?