Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread - Page 37 - Business, Finances and Investing Forum

What do people think of factom?

From a quick read it looks like you use factoids (the currency traded on exchanges) to buy entry credits (their tokens to add data to the blockchain). But the rate from factoids -> entry credits is fixed and set by a central authority. Is the idea that they set the rate so it's just slightly profitable for miners? If so I assume the value of factom would never be expected to increase since mining hardware will only get better.

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06-22-2016 , 06:13 PM

#902

BABARtheELEPHANT

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,920

Funny that a design flaw (the stalker attack) is enabling the good guys (and the bad guy) to prevent the DAO from being drained. I think a fork is going to happen but still a huge stepback for the community.

Last edited by BABARtheELEPHANT; 06-22-2016 at 06:28 PM.

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06-22-2016 , 07:00 PM

#903

Pokerlogist

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,302

Quote:

Originally Posted by BABARtheELEPHANT

It's a battle over the DAO, a fascinating worldwide digital drama that's going on like a Game of Thrones.... with a billion dollars of ETH at stake

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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06-22-2016 , 07:49 PM

#904

housenuts

1st Quartiled the 500

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 49,746

I dont think a fork is a step back at all. In fact I think it's a step forward. It shows the community can decide to do what is right, rather than just automated code. If the community decides "wrong" people can devalue crypto as they see fit.

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06-23-2016 , 02:47 AM

#905

tokeweed

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,966

Quote:

Originally Posted by housenuts

I dont think a fork is a step back at all. In fact I think it's a step forward.

A lot of people in crypto would disagree with you.

Quote:

It shows the community can decide to do what is right, rather than just automated code.

Lol. That's the wrong way of looking at it.

Quote:

If the community decides "wrong" people can devalue crypto as they see fit.

This tarnishes what cryptocurrencies are all about. But they can fork it if they want. I'm curious what happens after the fork. I'm guessing other platforms will take advantage as many of the 'who's who' in crypto would see this as a step backward.

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06-23-2016 , 11:34 AM

#906

onemoretimes

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 3,535

People need to look at this whole "decentralized" thing in a different light. What exactly does it mean? In my mind decentralized means a relatively large number of people control it.

As has been said before, the majority will rule when it comes to mining and making the decisions, so how is that taking away from being decentralized?

If people who don't want a fork and claim that makes it centralized win and it doesn't fork, how exactly is that any different then it forking. Essentially a group of people (majority) made the decision to not fork. It's no different then if the majority decided to fork it.

I also think these things are far from decentralized like people want. I've always said whoever controls the mining controls the coin. In BTC it got to the point whoever can produce the cheapest most efficient ASIC with the cheapest electricity. China won that battle. They can do at will what they want with BTC. It's in their best interest to keep it going so they do, but that doesn't make it decentralized. This mining format will always turn into centralization.

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06-23-2016 , 04:25 PM

#907

EmilioChekshevez

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 486

hey anyone know where I can buy XRP for USD kwi-kl-ē ?

From the US

Trying to load up a BitStamp account

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06-24-2016 , 03:05 AM

#908

tokeweed

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,966

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmilioChekshevez

hey anyone know where I can buy XRP for USD kwi-kl-ē ?

From the US

Trying to load up a BitStamp account

Do this. Buy BTC on Bitstamp, transfer BTC to Poloniex to buy XRP.

As for an XRP wallet, I think you need to upload docs if you want to use RippleTrade. But you can use a third party wallet made by GateHub. https://gatehub.net/

I'm not sure if they are trustworthy enough though...

But if you're ok with uploading docs, then just buy BTC on Bitstamp then transfer that to your RippleTrade account, then buy XRP using RippleTrade. OR you can straight transfer your USD to your RippleTrade account and buy XRP in RippleTrade.

Last edited by tokeweed; 06-24-2016 at 03:20 AM.

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06-24-2016 , 07:03 AM

#909

tokeweed

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,966

Altcoin trolls having a field day. Enjoy!

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06-24-2016 , 09:16 AM

#910

housenuts

1st Quartiled the 500

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 49,746

Anyone look into Voxel? https://www.voxelus.com/

I'm generally very anti altcoin, save ethereum.

I'm very bullish on VR in general so voxel could have some play. Just don't see why the Voxelus platform can't just use bitcoin or ether instead of its own crypto.

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06-27-2016 , 10:44 PM

#911

Tiltmonkey2

adept

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 717

Quote:

Originally Posted by housenuts

Looks pretty cool. I agree, it would be better if they used bitcoin or eth.

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06-28-2016 , 09:39 AM

#912

sinner

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,929

NEM goin nuts. looks like a pump. its gone from ~$1.5M cap to > $100M this year..

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06-28-2016 , 02:00 PM

#913

iloveny161

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinner

NEM goin nuts. looks like a pump. its gone from ~$1.5M cap to > $100M this year..

It's all manipulated. Pretty sure it's mostly fake volume.

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06-29-2016 , 10:52 AM

#914

sinner

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,929

Quote:

Originally Posted by iloveny161

It's all manipulated. Pretty sure it's mostly fake volume.

ya.. this is kinda funny (looks like it got dumped at >2x the price in this graph):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...58#msg15386358

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07-03-2016 , 02:33 AM

#915

heltok

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,695

Quote:

Summary: all Ether is temporarily locked in waiting periods in DAO contracts. Most likely a hard fork will be implemented that will put all theDAO Ether into a simple withdraw contract.

What is the situation currently? Currently all ETH in theDAO ecosystem is stuck in child DAOs that are now in the creation period. This means that currently no ETH can move.

What will happen next? There are two main options: do nothing or do some hard fork. The previous third option of a soft fork had some problems that made it dangerous to execute.

What was the proposal for a soft fork and what happened to it? The idea behind the soft fork proposal was to block all transactions that would reduce the amount of Ether held by a DAO contact. The curator contract was the only exception. In theory it would have been possible with this strategy to get all Ether back without a hard fork by performing a counter attack. There was a voting process where miners could vote for this soft fork. Initially, many miners voted for it and the acceptance rate was already around 80%. However, a few days before the soft fork was activated a potential attack vector was discussed. An attack could have created lots of transactions that would have looked valid from the outside but if miners would execute them they would eventually realize that those transactions contain a reduction of balance of a DAO address which is not valid under the soft fork rules. Usually transactions that fulfill some basic, easy to verify standards can be executed no matter what. Even if an exception occurs the gas would been paid. This makes it usually costly to create spam transactions. However, transactions that are excluded by the soft fork rules can not be included in the blockchain and therefore an attacker would not have to pay the fee. The severity of this attack vector in practice remains unclear. However, the warning alone made most miners vote against the soft fork. Due to this the soft fork was not activated at the block where the decision was due.

Is it possible that there will be another soft fork? It is possible but highly unlikely. It might be possible to specify a soft fork that still locks the Ether but where valid and invalid transactions are easier to distinguish (e.g: a backlist of tx senders) However, this would take a significant amount of time and consideration. Since there is time pressure this does not seem to be a path forward.

Why is July 15 an important date for a hard fork? July 15 is NOT a hard deadline for a hard fork. However, July 15 is nevertheless an important date, because until then no Ether will have left any DAO. The creation period of the DAO started on May 1st. The creation period of the DAO took 27 days. Immediately after the creation period the first split proposal was made. This was executed after 7 days. Following this, a new DAO was created with another 27 day creation period. Finally another 14 days is required in the new split to make a proposal to send money out of the split. In total this is 75 days after theDAO started. So July 15 is the first possible date that ETH that was sent into the original DAO can be sent to regular accounts and mixed with ETH that is not involved with theDAO. Please note that the split that we are talking about is a regular split. The owner should be allowed to withdraw, however, to make the hard fork code as simple as possible it would be better to not have to deal with those exceptions.

The second important date is July 27. That is the first date where ETH could leave the darkDAO (hack on June 16 + 27 days creation period + 14 days proposal period).

How does a proposal for a hard fork look like? This is something that is in discussion currently. At this point it is most likely that there will be a new contract that simply implements logic to redeem DAOToken for Ether. This contract can be created with regular transactions. However, the hard fork itself would only transfer all Ether from the DAO, the extra balance of the DAO, and the Ether of all the childs of the DAO to this withdrawal contract.

How exactly will this withdrawal contract work? Again, this is currently discussed. The broad idea is that all DAO token holders and token holders of legit splits can get their fair share. It might be necessary for DAO token holders to first approve a transfer to the refund address (giving the right to the refund address to transfer DAO shares). Then a simple function in the refund contract is called. The refund contract now has the right to access and collect the shares of the user and would send Ether back in exchange.

What is the process to activate a hard fork? There is no formal process. Basically, a majority of the community has to agree. The community can be summarized by: Ether holders, developers of the different Ethereum implementations, developers and companies that build DAPPs on top of Ethereum, exchanges and of course miners. While the role of core developers, miners and exchanges is immediately clear in this process (they have to develop and then adapt the hard fork) it is not necessarily clear which of those groups has the biggest influence. Let’s imagine that there is a fork, and miners and exchanges would want to switch but all companies and developers would make a convincing statement that they will continue to only develop DAPPs for the original version. That could have a big influence even if those companies are not formally involved in the process. Things are even more complicated because none of these five groups are homogeneous.

The reality looks more or less like this: there are informal communication channels between the core developers where a pre-consensus is formed. This is influenced by the perceived public opinion of the community expressed on channels like reddit, blogs or Twitter. As soon as a pre-consensus is formed a concrete specification can be made. The next step would require a consensus among at least a few of the different Ethereum implementations to actually implement a specification. After this those implementations can be presented to the community, including miners and exchanges. Now a coordination game begins. Those who want to influence the outcome will quickly make self binding statements whether or not they are going to implement it. At this point three outcomes are possible. One and two are a quick convergence towards implementing it or not implementing it. The third option is a split where neither side can get a clear majority. You can find a full discussion of “the hard fork game” by Vitalik (which was already done before theDAO existed) here .

Is it possible that there will be two versions of Ether after the fork? Currently this outcome of a fork process seems very unlikely but it is possible. It is possible that the community would split into one group against the hard for who proclaim: code is law no matter what and another group that believe that broad social consensus shout beat in some cases unintended consequences of the “code is law” idea. The exact mechanism of how such a situation could play out are worth another article. However one thing users should consider in case there are signs that this unlikely event is happening and Ether on both forks has economic value – in the early days of such a scenario do only transactions that are valid on one chain. For unexperienced user it might be best to do no transactions unless they explicitly want to execute them on both forks.

What would happen if there is no fork? In this case there will most likely be an unpredictable series of attacks and counter attacks. No Ether is “safe” in the sense that only one party can gain access. The Ether in the DarkDAO as well as the Ether in the white hat DAOs can be counter attacked by a different party. There might be some exploits that would end this race in favor of whomever uses those first but it is also possible that the race for this Ether could last forever. It is safe to say that not forking would result in a big mess.

Some misconceptions:

Does a hard fork mean that all transactions after the attack would be rolled back? No, absolutely not. All transactions not involved in the DAO will remain untouched. Even most DAO related transactions such as voting and token transfer will be honored.

There is a technical difference that make hard forks easier in Ethereum then in Bitcoin. This is not true. In Bitcoin it is also possible to revert a transaction with a hard fork or to move funds without a signature. It would even be possible to increase the 21 Million Bitcoin limit – at least from a purely technical perspective. The limitations of hard forks are purely social and are determined by the community. So, while it is possible that the Ethereum community is more open to hard fork with the goal of more rapidly pursuing the goals of Ethereum, technically such hard forks are possible in Bitcoin as well.

If we start a hard fork once that will mean that every time a DAPP has a bug a hard fork will be made? Again, this is not true. Every hard fork will require its own consensus process and it is quite likely that the willingness of the community to do another hard fork for a DAPP will shrink rather than increase with every hard fork that is done.

Finally:

What are the consequences for Ethereum? This can only be a speculative answer. Especially if a hard fork is executed successfully direct consequences of the hack and theDAO could be reverted within a few weeks. The consequences after that should be to reassess the way we as a community can create safe contracts. Do we need better tools? A different high level language? More “best practices”, “design patterns” that can be well tested and well understood building blocks for more complex contracts. Do we need more teams specializing in security audits? Can we find a way to balance the monetary incentives of a white hat hacker and a black hat hacker without making security audits prohibitively expensive?

Those questions are being asked and we are formulating the answers right now. This incident has shown that we have left the protected sandbox world in which Ethereum has existed the first years. We are now out in the wild. This is excellent news because it means we can now build real meaningful things that can change the world.

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07-03-2016 , 06:14 AM

#916

iloveny161

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,967

Damn was I wrong that DAO would be a no-brainer freeroll.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks.. best of luck to all who have money tied up in this situation.

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07-04-2016 , 06:06 AM

#917

heltok

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,695

Reebok to start using Ethereum Blockchain to combat counterfeit shoes:
http://sneakerbardetroit.com/major-r...s-and-stripes/

Quote:

In a new twist for the innovative retailer, the shoe will be equipped with an encrypted “smart tag” from San Francisco technology startup Chronicled. Each tag contains a tiny chip with a unique and unforgeable product “fingerprint”, stored on the Ethereum blockchain. The tags are tamper-proof and scannable with a smart phone, guaranteeing that no one can ever pass off a counterfeit version or falsely claim ownership of a stolen shoe.

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07-05-2016 , 02:55 AM

#918

heltok

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,695

The Current HF Status self.ethereum
Inlagd för 6 timmar sen av vbuterin [+1]Just some guy

Quote:

1) The implementation has been largely spec-frozen to the following python:

Code:

# call before running transactions
def initialize():
    if state.block_number == DAO_HARDFORK_BLKNUM:
        for acct in HARDFORK_DAO_LIST:
            state.set_balance(HARDFORK_DEST, state.get_balance(acct) + state.get_balance(HARDFORK_DEST))
            state.set_balance(acct, 0)

However, the dev community is debating the simplest way to minimize risks of issues related to light client syncing. The actual logic that allows DAO token holders to claim their ether would be implemented in HARDFORK_DEST.

2) The ether claiming logic is largely a simple withdrawable token contract, but small details are being debated regarding how to deal with secondary daos, legit splits, etc. Note that this can proceed in parallel to (1), there are no sequential dependencies. Simplicity of the ether claiming contract is understood to be a very important concern.

3) Note that the above should absolutely not be taken as an official endorsement of hardforking by either the foundation, or ethcore/slock/string, or the individual devs involved; some of the devs involved are pro-fork and some are anti-fork, the goal is to give the community a choice.

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07-14-2016 , 04:50 PM

#919

heltok

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,695

No action here but a lot in the altcoin space!

Steem market cap insane $360M, twice as big as Litecoin.

ETH + 12% in 24h, hard fork finalized while hacker and whitehacker are both active.

DAOs trading for 94% of their ETH value.

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07-17-2016 , 02:39 PM

#920

Silent_0ne

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,309

Anyone who has any financial interest in Ethereum and is unaware of what's currently going on, it would be best to upgrade your mist wallet in support of the dominating chain (most likely the one that solves the DAO mess). Not doing say can put you in risk of a "Replay Attack".

https://github.com/ethereum/mist/releases

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07-17-2016 , 09:28 PM

#921

EmilioChekshevez

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 486

Quote:

Originally Posted by heltok

so how do you think this is going to play out leading up to July 20? Do you think price will drop pre-HF anticipating a big sell off post-HF from all the DAO tokens and then a decent rebound to 14-15 USD after a successful HF?

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07-18-2016 , 09:23 AM

#922

EmilioChekshevez

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 486

Quote:

Originally Posted by housenuts

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/voxels/

Trading volume increased almost 10x in the last 2 days. Whos ready for a pump?

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07-18-2016 , 11:35 AM

#923

heltok

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmilioChekshevez

To be honest I feel very uncertain about what will happen. I can see all directions happening. I think what I will do is just sit still in the boat and enjoy the ride.

If one would be bold one could guess that a lot of the people receiving their ETH will sell them. But the market should have price this information in already. And I have seen similar events in the crypto market where the price did not tank. If any of you guys decide to try to beat the market, then GLHF!

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07-19-2016 , 05:35 AM

#924

heltok

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,695

Quote:

11. The DAO hardfork

hard fork block: 1,920,000 1 day 03:17:34
refund address: 0xbf4ed7b27f1d666546e30d74d50d173d20bca754
refund rate: 1 eth to 100 dao tokens
tokens eligible for refund: 1,153,816,599
total ether for refund: 12,017,610
leftover ether for trustee: 479,444
trustee address: 0xda4a4626d3e16e094de3225a751aab7128e96526

http://slacknation.github.io/medium/11/11.html

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07-20-2016 , 07:59 AM

#925

EmilioChekshevez

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 486

less than 400 blocks away and the price just started to surge on poloniex, volume has nearly double since yesterday and people are expecting much more

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