Just want to post the recent highs for another reference point, here was the day each of the original Coinbase five peaked and return off recent highs/lows.

BTC 6/26/19 $13,868 (-27.9%/+220%)
ETH 6/26/19 $364.44 (-42.6%/+157%)
LTC 6/23/19 $142.2 (-41.6%/+273%)
BCH 6/22/19 $517.75 (-45.3%/+286%)
ETC 6/03/19 $9.85 (-43.1%/+75%)

Alts in 2017 especially during the final push into December were outperforming Bitcoin on up days, now they are consistently lagging on both up/down days. What's it going to take for this to change (either fundamental and/or technical) or could it get worse if Bitcoin heads back down?

Why XMR vs other privacy coins?

I've seen more support for GRIN than any other alt from die-hard bitcoin maximalists (including people who have always said ETH and anything based on it is pure trash). At least, it is a technically interesting project.

Not sure how it will fare on the market though. GRIN's properties might not be great if your primary concern is maximizing ROI. It seems to be designed as a functional form of digital cash more so than a pump and dump. For example, the economics of GRIN are not as favorable for early adopters as most other alt coins. Supply is uncapped (it increases linearly over time, so the increase becomes a smaller % of total supply over time). And there was no pre-mine or pre-sale.

Having said that...

If Balaji's prediction is right, with supply of 31,536,000 GRIN at end of 2019, the price should be about USD $8. (Although it's probably highly correlated to the price of BTC and not accounting for that makes this prediction difficult to test).

I'll take the under on Grin.

Under $8 throughout 2019? Ytho?

I liked it back in January 2015 and haven't looked at it again since bitcoin hit $17K and Ripple 230 bagged. This is me back then:
Risk reward made sense above, don't think it makes sense here.

The fundamental problem with these is that no one is spending a fortune to buy into an ecosystem when there are no real ecosystem rewards equal to the cost of the buyin.

ripple hit 230x at the top (from jan 2015) and quickly lost >90% of its market value without recovering. remains to be seen if xrp regains some value, but it seems very unlikely. I like the technology, but it's not designed to gain value even if it gains widespread use.

in the same period btc hit 90x and quickly lost >75% of its market value. it's 2.5xed since then.

overall btc is up ~50x and ripple is up ~15x since Jan 2015

if you were gambling on calling tops and bottoms then xrp won. if you were investing then bitcoin won. which one do you do tooth?

my bad, I forgot you don't trade or invest in crypto. You just spout predictions until you get one right, which allows you to cherry pick the correct guesses and act smug despite not making $1 off your guess.

blind squirrel, broken clock, etc etc

The liquidity flow for alts is basically dead now that icos are gone and outlawed. So if you’re holding a coin that’s a derivative of ethereum or an ico with its own blockchain you are mega rekt. There is just 0 use case for any of these craps and if ethereum cant recover, there won’t be anyone around for people to even use these crap dapps and networks. Literally the entire altcoin market depends on ethereum scaling or a massive second wave of icos. The latter happening is basically 0.

Top 5 coins in three years:

1/ btc
2/ aggregates stable coins
3-5/ game or social media based crypto

generally agree, any thoughts on enjin though? already cashed in half and still in the green on the rest but I really like the project and am considering re entering now that it's dropped a little.

Is there a reliable exchange that lets me short **** coins?

(I don't mean ETH, more obscure ones)

Poloniex should have some shortable shatcoins

I think we need new people, new money to see any kind of decent alt season.

When will new people join? My take is after we break 20k!

Remember when alts did really well, well that was after BTC made new highs, meanwhile btc was in a bull market for 3 years and it wasn't until BTC stopped that trend that Alts started to really show massive gains.

We could argue that it might take 3 years until we see something truly epic again, as that is when BTC should end it's bull cycle.

Time will tell, I hope we still see some mini alt rallies, but I think we have to break 20k and bring in some new noobs!

binance just opened margin trading, havent really looked at what they offer in detail though


ftx.com is also kind of interesting. I think they are reputable, but you never really know..

thx alot

I have recently started mining, Im a little late to the party but believe there is a ton of upside still. Is there a thread for miners or is this it

What are you mining? I guess if alts take off again it could be worth it. Curious about what you spend (hardware/electricity) vs what you mine.

also curious what you're mining. think you're better off with POS stuff.

Right now I have 11 X 1660TI cards mining and within 2 weeks will have 20 going (1X4 card and 2X 8card). Its a labour of love and I make a small profit per day. Im going to hold off on mentioning what coin im mining for obv reasons.

small profit after hardware + electricity costs? also doubt anyone here going to start mining and steal your profits, but understandable if you want to keep that info confidential.

Well. That was the argument when people started coaching poker and see where it got us

lol

I'll POS any day, but never going to electricity mine.

Not sure what you mean after hardware? And yes clearly if I make it simple for people to make a profit, there are enough degens that love passive income no matter how small.

Running proof of work requires electricity and it runs the bills up high. If you have free electricity then of course it's nothing for you to worry about

Maybe im not that smart but I have zero clue what you mean. Yes they take electricity to run.