In the US there is an easy out for the able bodied. The military! That's the route I took as I joined the Navy. This doesn't mean you join the Army or Marines and live in a ditch while dodging bullets. The Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard have many positions available from administration to highly technical where you get to sleep in a bed and stay relatively out of harms way.

You can make it a career with great benefits and retirement or you can just gain the experience and use the lucrative education/college programs. I didn't do the career route but did get my Masters degree out of it. So I just laugh when people say they have no chance at life do to a poor situation. The choice is yours not societies!

Glad someone brought this up. I have had the opportunity to work with Air Force personnel. I was astounded by how many had advanced degrees including PHDs.

If you think the USA is immoral, imperialist, racist, oppressive, whatever like certain posters in this thread do, you aren’t signing up for the military. Their problem, not mine.

lol. noticing that the world is rigged does not preclude trying to be successful or working to improve talent. not everyone can learn to code and get a nice job. some people can. I know I can. I can learn a lot and achieve a lot.

I just dont think that people who are less talented, less smart, less hard working should be stuck in at subsistence wages without health care while their owners get rich.

I also know how lucky I am. I sure as hell wasnt gonna work my way up from a minimum wage job. I had 15k laying around and I used it to better myself. but if I didnt, I would still be getting bossed around by idiots at some **** job.

and the really funny thing is that many of my coworkers are just as moronic and lazy as the people I worked with in the minimum wage jobs.

Victor: "Economically worthless people who are net parasites on the system and other people should be subsidized by the hardworking smart"

Society: OK, done. Here's a trillion a year.

Victor: "That's not enough"

Society: OK, done. Here's $2.7 trillion a year. We'll go into large and increasing debt to foreign dictatorships (with $400 billion/year interest payments alone) to subsidize the poor even more.

Victor: "Economically worthless people who are net drains on the system should be subsidized even more!

Society: "Hold up there, we're getting up to crazy levels of parasitism and creating massive debt and taxation levels that are incentivizing large scale manufacturing and talent moves overseas (further hurting the poor) and putting us dangerously in debt. Even a very productive society lilke the US can only take so much parasitism before the whole economy starts to get into big trouble"

Victor: "You're racist white supremacist scum. Revolution!"

TS: soylent green is the answer!

The world isn't rigged. Not by a long shot.

There was never more free information available in the history of the world for anyone with a physical brain above their shoulders. All the libraries in the world on audio mode in your pocket!

It won't matter. The rich vs poor excuse is a much more short term emotionally satisfying thought process.

Max is obviously being dumb on purpose in this thread so not gonna argue with him but I want to touch on this point.

Big injustice in mine and I imagine many European countries, especially from Eastern block with socialized healthcare is that hard working very useful people like nurses or first responders (no idea what's the English term is, I mean the guys who show up on the accident scene and take care of the mess/transport the injured to the hospitals) are working for basically nothing because the society at large feels entitled to their work as "everyone deserves free healthcare". As vast majority of healthcare providers/hospitals etc. are government owned there is little competition and the government continue to suppress wages of those people by legislation (limiting what private provider can do and how they can operate) counting on them not moving abroad to look for opportunities. This works for now because of language/cultures barriers (not so easy for people raised under communism to just move to the Western country and leave their whole life here).

While this might not be as developed as Fidel Castro's model of healthcare (making low wage slaves out of the most educated and closing the borders so they don't escape) it's still big injustice caused by the sentiment of entitlement to other people's work and time. At least in US a registered nurse makes a decent salary and can lead a middle class life. Not so much here as the screeching becomes too loud for the government to handle every time an idea of paying a bit more for healthcare insurance/services is raised (and it's dirty cheap now).

This will all come crashing as next generations will be much more eager to go to countries full of opportunity and rewards for hard work like USA and we will be left with huge labor shortage in health care (and others) industries.
Of course our boneheaded government continues to fund handout programs while claiming "there isn't enough money" to pay actual productive people.

The model of making low wage slaves out of productive members of society so the entitled can be served is prevalent. It's the reason so many young people dream of being able to emigrate to US even if it means starting from 0 with no friends, family or connections. There is still more opportunity there. I've seen it happening with my friends and family members. If you have functioning brain and some work ethic it's very hard not to get to very comfortable middle+ class life in USA.

Well, there's your problem. There isn't enough wealth in the world to give every stupid, lazy, worthless piece of crap a large living space, cable TV, internet, a smartphone, a car, 3000 calorie a day diet, including takeout so they don't have to prepare their own meals, cigarettes, booze, meth, unlimited health care, etc.

And if we don't incentivize people to contribute to a larger pool of wealth, we will have even less total global wealth to spit between the people. This is why communism doesn't work.

The bottom line is this: talent-less, stupid, lazy people have to be stuck with subsistence wages because they do nothing to help society, and the whole thing crashes down if they get to live like kings when bringing nothing to the table.

lol wat

I guess if you are reduced to blatant lying then its as good as admitting defeat. good talk.

the capitalists are making low wage slaves out of everyone. 50 years ago the average salary could buy a house and a car and a college education. now, even the supposed middle class people with top 5% salaries struggle to pay for those things, esp with kids.

this is by design. it creates a situation where more wealth gets funneled to the top. where desperate people are forced to pay higher and higher prices for rent and health care while accepting jobs with less compensation.

is the Mcdonalds worker lazy? or the painter? or the landscaper? mechanic? bc I tend to think those people work pretty ****ing hard. I mean those are things Ive done and its a hell of a lot harder than the **** I do now.

but I guess its pretty easy to just demonize all of 10s of millions of people as lazy and stupid despite wages vs buying power declining every year despite GDP and production and exec salaries skyrocketing.

or what about when the genius capitalists screw up like the numerous recessions and depressions that happen every couple years causing millions to lose their jobs and livelihoods with no recourse? oh well, guess they were just dumb and lazy.

Victor, think global, act local. Just pay your landscaper double or better, triple the next time you need landscaping. It starts with you.

Is the McDonald's worker lazy? - Yes. McDonald's is a starter job. All of us have worked those jobs to get our foot in the ground. If you think your job ends after you leave work, you are destined to stay poor. Your job as a McDonald's employee is to grind after hours to develop useful skills that will lead to a better career.

Is a painter lazy? Yes. Landscaper? Yes. Mechanic? Yes.

Entry level coder? Yes.
Entry level engineer? Yes

If you want to get rich, you can't be lazy. You have to put in extra effort beyond your base job to improve skills and knowledge.

If you're really sitting as a landscaper, working a straight 40 hrs/week and putting in no extra effort to improve your situation, and at the same time complaining that you can't seem to improve your situation...You are a moron.

You also have done nothing to warrant an improved situation, so why should the rest of us chip in to gift you a better car, house, TV?

The people that need welfare are the ones that can't improve their position, like the mentally and/or physically disabled.

The morons that got a **** education because they were born to poor uneducated parents in a **** school district with a **** load of bad influences around and end up in a **** job with no clue how to do better and face resistance because of what they look like... DESERVE IT!


Also, if you want all people to be able to make a relatively fair living for working an honest full time job... YOU PAY THEM MORE!

If you want education reform, GO GIVE MONEY TO THE SCHOOL!

Billionaire job hatching super genius needs billions to... Amurica #1 don't tread on me!

Here's the world's smallest violin.

They just need to remind themselves every day that they have no control over their lives (none whatsoever) and it is responsibility of evil white rich man to come from the heavens and bail them out with some cash.

Give their seat to actually hard working kids from 3rd world countries that would take the opportunity and run with it.


I just googled top selling cars in USA and its a bunch of oversized expensive trucks no American needs. Will play that violin again next time I hear Americans complain about not having any disposable income!

Tien lecturing others on self awareness is quite ironic.
Your intolerant hate helps nobody and I doubt it even makes you feel any better about yourself.

You do realize that Victor and Max Cut fully agree with your statement.

back to my original point. if everyone worked 100 hours a week then not everyone would get rich. in fact the same amount of people would get rich.

but as usual you strawman and shift the goalposts. its not about becoming rich. its about how much value a person creates and how much is stolen by the capitalists. and its about a baseline of living standards.

we know that there are the resources to provide health care, education, housing, internet, water, heat, transportation for everyone in the country. you would prefer the excess to go into the hands of very few at the top for whatever reason.

no I dont agree with his statement. there most certainly is enough wealth for that. and heres the thing, almost everyone would continue to work anyway so very few people would need such handouts.

I do think its pretty hilarious that during a pandemic that is crushing the economy coming on the heels of a recession that never really ended people in this thread are blaming it on laziness. like, theres a reason why half the country didnt have enough savings for an unexpected 500$ expense before Covid. some of us have been talking about this for years.

why was someone able to quit high school in the 50s or 60s and work a gas station job and make enough to buy a house and support a family? why were people able to pay bills on waitress salaries decades ago? and factory jobs made enough to put kids through college and retire back then?

oh I guess those people just worked harder. something about flipping burgers in the 70s was harder and deserving of more rewards then rather than now.

but I am getting away from my point. when the recession hit in 2008 millions lost their job through no fault of there own. even disregarding the people who couldnt pay their loans who I am sure the people of this forum would gleefully watch die in the streets, 10s of millions lost their jobs or saw their compensation slashed. I am sure yall could find some twisted logic to say they deserved it.

but Covid? 30m unemployed now. something like 30-40% of people wont be able to pay rent. America must be the laziest country of all time. these people should just have had better jobs and more savings I guess.

You do agree with his statement but only because of his exaggerated assertions as to what he claims the poor would like provided for them.

Again the bottom line is this:

Some people use too flimsy of an excuse to not make the effort to better themselves, and instead ask for help. Other people have better reasons to expect help. I think liberals are a bit too lenient with those with flimsy excuses. However I also think that one of the criteria for deciding whether someone has a good case to get help is not only what caused them to ask, but also the degree of ease in giving it to them. In other words I don't think it is right to ascertain whether a person has used up every ounce of possible effort to help himself when there are so many super rich running around who could so easily help those who fall a bit short of that.

Victor can correct me if I am wrong. Victor’s main point is that everyone in the USA is entitled to a certain standard of healthcare but many people are receiving sub standard healthcare in the USA.

It's common sense. For there to be rich people, there have to be multiple poor people. The economy and gambling is the same thing. for there to be winners, there has to be losers. Not everyone can win.

Strawman. The correct application of the pigeonhole principle is that not everyone can have above average wealth. No one is arguing that can happen. For every person more than 100% above the average, there have to be multiple people below average, sure. But, you can have rich people, and still have everyone above basic subsistence with decent income, healthcare, housing, etc.

pretty much. its also that they are entitled to a certain standard of health care at a reasonable percentage of their income. the family bringing in 100k a year before taxes should not need to pay 20k in health care.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classless_society

Sick bluff