Bloomberg: Tesla Set for $3 Billion Boost From Chargers at Rivals’ Expense

The deals, which now make Tesla’s charging model the standard in the US among the largest American automakers, will pressure competitors to ditch the primary competing standard, known as CCS.
...
Details on revenue were not released by the companies, but Piper Sandler estimates that Tesla could add upwards of $3 billion in charging revenue from non-Tesla owners alone by 2030 and $5.4 billion by 2032.

That charging windfall may not seem huge for Tesla, which already boasts revenue in excess of $80 billion a year, but Tesla’s US competitors are all racing to catch up in the EV race, and it could affect their margins while Tesla brings in income from their customers. GM and Ford both say their EV programs aren’t profitable and won’t for at least another year.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rivals-expense

1. Gotta say, releasing FSD as a half cocked product, using their customers lives as beta testing, and killing some people along the way was the smartest decision they ever made. Its pretty amazing really. They aren't in the lead at all. They were the only company irresponsible enough to release an unfinished product. But I've continually expressed how they've cornered the perception that they are in the lead with FSD because they have a product.

2. So you are saying they are going to sell to SpaceX. Is that even legal? I understand their manufacturing process is pretty much their competitive advantage so I'll concede that this has potential.

3. Only the biggest Tesla fan boys care about mega packs, thats why you never hear about them. Thats also why they won't amount to material revenue.

4. Similar to mega pack, and closely tied together. Their solar is trash, legit bottom of the barrel in the industry. Also, 0 support.

5. I don't see the charging network as a long term competitive advantage. Maybe I am wrong here.

6. This is future speculation and not particularly mature or even economically viable at the moment. But is essential to the long term viability of EV growth so they will probably work to figure it out.

I had heard of all of these before except #6. I'm actually very tapped into to Tesla and what they actually do. More so than most bulls even.

Pretty much what PZ said, but the charging network is an essential piece to their cars even being viable. Its in support of the cars. Maybe it will drive a small amount of revenue in the near term, but its not going to amount to material revenue. IMO

And just to be clear I've moved way beyond the Tesla is worth 0 stance years ago. I think its trading at 3-3.5x the multiple it should be trading.

It really just comes down to the R&D spend on all these ancillary products. They spend nothing on R&D. Bulls think that the batteries are Tesla. Panasonic spends like 5000 times more on R&D every year than Tesla and it’s Panasonic batteries but somehow Tesla gets all the credit. it’s insanity.

When I look at Berkshire Hathaway, I trust Warren Buffett

When I look at Amazon, I trust Jeff Bezos

When I look at Elon Musk, I don't trust him. And the board is basically in his pocket

If Tesla did any kind of dividend, it would make me think Elon Musk has lost his marbles...The guy is solely interested in himself. Even when he exudes benevolence in the attempt to save the environment/humanity/go to Mars, it's still all about him. Guy is on Twitter desperate for attention. Sorry, happy for anyone who profits off of Tesla, but I'm just not going to invest in a company where the CEO very clearly does not scream optimal and proper stewardship of capital. Perhaps being a billionaire provides a critical mass of immunity from failure, I dunno. Guy seems willing to drive everything he has into a brick wall at 100mph and literally said they almost went bankrupt before. His volatile personality carries elevated risk I'm simply not interested in

If there's a Tesla emblem or sign at the station it should be good for the brand. As long as the charging experience is good and it sounds like it is if country wide EV sales keep growing that's a lot of car buying customers they could get from other brands. They could even make other brands charge slower possibly. Making more people want the Teslas. I'm not sold on EV's being better than hybrid but i think the EV bulls estimate what like 40% or 50% EV market share in the car market in the future. If most of the charging is Tesla stations that's huge.

We'd need to get an expert to chime in, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

I believe the speed of delivery and price of the Electricity has to be the same as for a Tesla with the same settings.
I think the way Tesla Superchargers will make money is to charge something like $12.99/m for access to the Tesla SC network.
May change, but that is what I have heard so far.

So if Musk did not take control of Tesla would we be talking now about a fleet of EVs that got 6, maybe 8 years to the market before their competitors?

Maybe one could say that Musk is a complete luckbox, and he will fail miserably if/when he takes on the next major disruptive technology. But too many investors have faith he will be the one to pull off whatever the future brings.

If you try to ignore subjective things about Elon, can we at least look at what absolute things has happened during the time Elon has been leading the company?

Back in 2014 Elon said Tesla would do 500k cars in 2020:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...e_can_do_500k/

Bears thought this was absurd numbers:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/250...020-are-absurd

Then they did it. Since then pandemic, wars and now they are making close to 500k cars/quarter.

If he was solely interested in himself, had lost his marbles etc, somehow still he did what people thought would never happen. So has he recently lost his marbles? Why then were bears saying that he had lost his marbles pretty much every week since 2014? Could it be that they had misjudged him? That he has always been a bit weird making some people misjudge him, but actually he is the same as he was from 2014 to the start of the twitter drama?

And if he did things solely for himself, then working 80h/week to make me richer, rather than retiring and living live Bezos/Branson? Living in a boxabl house near the factory? Sleeping on the roof of the factory or on a sofa there? Doesn't seem like he is very effective at being solely interested in himself...

Imo Elon is a bit strange. He is still a kid stuck in his illusion that he needs to and can save the world by himself. It's his strength and weakness. But he is extremely intelligent, knowledgeable, hard working and effective. A combination the world has never seen before. He can enter twitter, fire 80% and a few months later they went from burning billions to breakeven, while having released more features in a few months than they did in the last years. He is not like other CEOs and thus people think he doesn't make sense and fail to estimate the results of his actions... If you are gonna invest/short his companies you need accept him for what he is and is not, and do your best to guesstimate the expected value he brings to his companies.

I'm not sure what the point of all of that was but the guy's clearly a narcissist. You can fawn over him all you want, doesn't change the volatility of his temperament, nor erase the risk waged over the years. People act like he didn't nearly drive the whole thing into the ground...Or that it still can't happen

i was trying to think like a corporation but on second thought that would be a stupid idea to sabatoge charging. After someone blows the whistle on it the bad publicity would ruin them. I just read awhile ago about the evils of Dupont Corp the chemical companies coverups of the dangers of their products. So im pretty jaded on big corp.

So you don't own TSLA because you think Musk is a narcissist?

that's a pretty good reason not to own a company. there are more than 50.000 other companies you could buy shares of. pretty sure some of them will do even better than tesla.

Imo calling exes, people we don't like, famous people etc narcissists is not productive. One needs to be a psychologist and do actual tests to label people. And I think most of us have a bit of narcissus in us. And I think many people use the term narcissist when they mean sociopath.

But anyway, let's assume it's true. So what follows? Not invest in companies with narcissist leaders? You think most CEOs are low on that trait? Do those companies underperform?

Imo it seems like you start with a conclusion, then you do your best to justify it. You can probably come up with a few more rationalization that don't really explain the past and thus have limited predictive power of the future. But the nice thing with the free market is that we can vote with our wallets. For example I will not invest in Meta because I think social media does harm. Am I right? Dunno. Do I leave EV on the table? Maybe. But it's nice to have that freedom to follow my morals!

Not per se, no. I’ve followed this thread for a while and the Tesla story, and Musk, is interesting to me

Musk does not strike me as stable minded and his narcissistic traits are rooted in that. Does that preclude anyone from success? Of course not. But as I said, I just don’t trust him. There are lots of reasons to choose not to invest…That’s just one of them

You know this doesn’t work, right? Acting like I’m doing something I’m not actually doing, or saying something I’m not actually saying…

Not buying TSLA is not some controversial decision lol

The share price is one thing, stability is another. Again, you can scream until you’re blue in the face about it and your supposed moral compass and wallet voting metrics, doesn’t really change anything…

the list of companies with a CEO who got sued by the SEC for securities fraud and didn't even get acquitted but rather settled the case is very very short. the list gets even shorter if you exclude those who don't own a social media plattform and meme around all day.

like i said, there are more than 50.000 other public companies. i've done quite well the last few years not owning a single share of tesla.

Yeah that $20M fine for 2018 funding secured tweet that he(not Tesla) settled. So material for the future story of Tesla. Yes he is unhinged, yes that's why Tesla growth has been so unhinged. That's why bears predictions are so massively wrong, they focus on small meaningless events and ignore the underlying fundamentals driving the growth story.

"the CEO made **** up to pump his company before but only paid a 20 million fine" is really not that great of an argument as you think it is. atleast in my view.

You do realize he was on drugs when he said that, right?

Drugs don’t preclude you from success and/or productivity, but if you can’t see how that behavior is impactfully problematic, then I question your own mental stability

420 is a weed reference. 69 is almost always a meme reference. He literally broke the law/committed fraud as a joke. Harmless in his mind, but that’s bc it doesn’t always operate in reality imo

Perhaps that’s required to become the richest man on Earth. Cool. Doesn’t magically erase risk…Which is kind of the point

Twitter is a whole other, intriguing saga…But it is clear as day to me he was “not all there” when he offered, officially, to buy it. And that was BEFORE he tried to weasel out of the deal. But, like I said, perhaps billionaire wealth provides a critical mass of immunity and nothing matters at that point

He didn't even know how to smoke weed. But yes, he does things for the lols, such as saying that the stock price is too high before a stock split just to mess with bears. It makes the stock extra volatile but also makes for some extra alpha for clever investors.

But yeah let's talk about that 2018 event while Tesla goes from 2M cars/year to 20M cars/year, FSD, optimus etc. That event sure predicted 2018-2023 very accurately so it sure will predict 2023 to 2028 also.

So if you had a choice to put 50% of your net worth, is it BTC or TSLA?

As an investor wouldn't I prefer the majority shareholder hyping his company?

It's been so long when a guy like Musk actually had the technical wherewithal to make a difference while owning a company. Edison could do it a century ago, Ford also (but Ford was basically family owned).

Usually the path of a company is to buy out the technical team who started the company, and continue to buy out technical talent while getting bigger in the process. Apple has done a masterful job in this regard. I know Musk bought out the original TSLA team, but I doubt that team could ever imagine getting to the level TSLA is at now.

I told a friend that Musk can pick his next buyout targets, which I believe is Ford at the moment.