Driver Assist technology, or what i like to call Partial Correction technology is amazing. It is amazing in how far and fast it has advanced over the years. It is amazing in its real world use cases. And it is amazing for its future potential.
In a rating of it a fair rating would be 'exceeds expectations' 'A+'.
And yet the complaint seems to be 'look what it is does not yet do well' as if that is some ground breaking critical thinking.
I can do that too. Look what Drones do not yet do. They don't deliver the mail. They do not serve as personal flight mobility vehicles. AHAHAHA Drones. Crazy people have a positive view of them.
I think too many people are unable to unattached the hype, or forward look of "visionary" CEOs who need to hype up long bets to get risk based funding (and this happens all across the market) from what the technology is actually doing and achieved.
There is absolutely a 'Buyer Beware" principle at play as many "visionary" promises are not met and more companies fail than succeed.
I do not think anyone who is a trader wants "vision" removed from a CEO's arsenal of information given for those who want to make bets on their stock/company otherwise you get Financial Statement reporting only. If people transgress laws in that regard, charge them.
But Driver Assist tech is amazing, great, and it is pretty clear where it will end up as the amount of big data gathered, and required to make the next level advancements, now is ramping up into an even bigger exponential growth stage that dwarfs the prior.
TS's masturbatory celebration and rubbing it in to the noses of the Tesla longs is funny to me. It reeks of angry Shorts mad that the Longs held on and did not allow them to realize on their 'correct' analysis.
TS has crafted a narrative where the Tesla long are suckers despite all the money they have made. And the true winners are the Shorts and Skeptics despite the mass losses or missed profits, they deny having suffered.
So what if even at the most extreme view the Longs made bets unhinged from what is generally considered reality? I would not bet my money that Tesla can ever achieve the type of Profits to justify the multiples they are being given, if in fact one day the company is valued on a more traditional multiple type equation. But so what if others think they will.
If people want to gamble on a Moon Shot homerun knowing it might be zero or grand slam homerun with little in between, who cares?
it seems you have a group of 'sore losers' who know they are not going to 'win' when it comes to playing Tesla Stock and as such they have recrafted the narrative to 'you are all losers because 'look', 'hype', is fueling your stock and your day of reckoning will eventual come'.
The few guys I know who are long term hard core Tesla fanatics have made so much money playing the 'hype' that they are completely free rolling their investment now. I know a guy who has owned from around the $40 range and he took profits and paid out his mortgage entirely and spread a bunch of Tesla money around to balance his portfolio at the advise of his FA.
I guess TS would lecture that guy on what a loser he was, buying into all that 'hype'. Haha sucker!!!
TS's masturbatory celebration and rubbing it in to the noses of the Tesla longs is funny to me. It reeks of angry Shorts mad that the Longs held on and did not allow them to realize on their 'correct' analysis.
TS has crafted a narrative where the Tesla long are suckers despite all the money they have made. And the true winners are the Shorts and Skeptics despite the mass losses or missed profits, they deny having suffered.
So what if even at the most extreme view the Longs made bets unhinged from what is generally considered reality? I would not bet my money that Tesla can ever achieve the type of Profits to justify the multiples they are being given, if in fact one day the company is valued on a more traditional multiple type equation. But so what if others think they will.
If people want to gamble on a Moon Shot homerun knowing it might be zero or grand slam homerun with little in between, who cares?
it seems you have a group of 'sore losers' who know they are not going to 'win' when it comes to playing Tesla Stock and as such they have recrafted the narrative to 'you are all losers because 'look', 'hype', is fueling your stock and your day of reckoning will eventual come'.
The few guys I know who are long term hard core Tesla fanatics have made so much money playing the 'hype' that they are completely free rolling their investment now. I know a guy who has owned from around the $40 range and he took profits and paid out his mortgage entirely and spread a bunch of Tesla money around to balance his portfolio at the advise of his FA.
I guess TS would lecture that guy on what a loser he was, buying into all that 'hype'. Haha sucker!!!
Driver assist is one thing. Calling your driver assist FSD and being intentionally misleading is another. People thought they were getting level 5 Full Self Driving, or at least a 99% level 4 solution that would be level 5 very soon. They thought that because that is what Musk told them they were getting
Tesla is level 3 right now, maybe. Years and years behind their competition, which runs 0 intervention taxi services since November 2019.
A vision is an idea of what the future will be, not a lie about what the present is
cupee, have you seen the bowling scene in big lebowski?
nobody is valuing drone companies more than boeing and airbus combined, if they were then it would be worth discussing whether or not they could deliver mail or fly people around
fsd is a foundation behind tesla's valuation and it's not that "it's cool yo" but "these cars can drive themselves without people in them and that's why the company is worth more than all other car companies combined - which is clearly not the case and their tech is really no different than a few dozen other companies doing the same
there's already full self driving trucks operating in highway stretches in china in trial runs - there's nothing unique about tsla's tech and it's arguably not even top 10 in the category
OK rickroll so the issue is there is just a lack of awareness of this and the thought that Tesla is unique in this regard thus why you think pointing out 'drone companies are not (yet) valued more than Boeing' is a good reply.
I don't say that sarcastically. I think many on this forum just do not understand this.
So I will provide another, better example and then if you need more, let me know.
...(Shopify) took in $470 million in revenue in the first three months of 2020. That's up from $320 million in the same period a year ago.
...the company is worth just over $121 billion. That's enough to make Shopify the most valuable company in Canada, just ahead of the Royal Bank of Canada, ..., for a total stock market value of $120.4 billion.
...the company still posted a net loss of $31.4 million or 27 cents a share compared with a loss of $24.2 million or 22 cents per share during the first quarter of 2019.
On an adjusted basis, however, the company posted a profit of $22.3 million or 19 cents per share for the first quarter of 2020 compared with an adjusted profit of $7.1 million or six cents per share for the same period last year...
-----------
Royal Bank
...reportednet income of $3,201 million for the quarter ended July 31, 2020
--------
And the retort to this is not to say why you like the Shopify metrics and think that BET is ok because you think they can achieve it.
We do not get to pic what other people can or cannot bet on and say 'only these metrics I like are the ones that make a bet good'.
If someone wants to bet on Shopify for ...'reasons' or Tesla for 'reasons' that is on them. Both could spectacularly ending up failing to achieve and hold on the long term value they are being given.
BTW some leading Drone company could easily end up hyped up more and worth than Boeing if a few advancements they require (such as much better battery life) are achieved or seem in reach and that is ok if people want to make that gamble and bet.
cup, when you respond, if instead of discussing what is actually being discussed you then try brute forcing other random outliers into the discussion it's probably a better idea to take a breather and not respond
i like you, you're a smart guy, but sometimes you just get your head shoved up your @ss sometimes and take contrary positions because you're bored in life or something, go intellectually masturbate somewhere else instead of giving this thread aids as well
what you said was redundant and out of context, just looking to provoke bs, you're a troll but of a unique swarmy kind, just stop and be a better person ffs
Driver assist is one thing. Calling your driver assist FSD and being intentionally misleading is another. People thought they were getting level 5 Full Self Driving, or at least a 99% level 4 solution that would be level 5 very soon. They thought that because that is what Musk told them they were getting
Tesla is level 3 right now, maybe. Years and years behind their competition, which runs 0 intervention taxi services since November 2019.
A vision is an idea of what the future will be, not a lie about what the present is
"...I do not think anyone who is a trader wants "vision" removed from a CEO's arsenal of information given for those who want to make bets on their stock/company otherwise you get Financial Statement reporting only. If people transgress laws in that regard, charge them...."
What i said was absolutely relevant. You saying 'drones are not valued more than Boeing was irrelevant'.
The point, which went over your head was that there are all sorts of companies where valuations are based on a belief and vision of where the company MAY ONE DAY get to as opposed to where they are or even what they have demonstrated today.
And in the world of 'investor gambles and bets' that MUST be allowed.
I have no issue with anyone saying Elon is a nutter and liar and Tesla is crazy over valued and those betting on it and holding forever will eventually lose.
That is a fair OPINION to hold. As is their bet that given time and money the company will get there.
But this idea that Tesla longs are the true losers and dumb and it is the Shorts and skeptics who are smart and right is just a warped crazy distortion.
It is the type of thing a loser tells himself as he cries himself to sleep at night after looking at his losses but convincing himself he was right regardless.
Cuepee, the following sequence of events is what happens to fish and losers:
1. Have thesis that Tesla is somewhat likely to have robotaxis in 2020 and that that will soar the stock
2. Be completely, hopelessly, comically wrong on thesis. Thesis was a straight zero.
3. Get paid anyway
Tesla going up 20x despite being a pure lie/fraud when it comes to FSD is like a fish hitting a one outer. The fish is still a loser even though he drags the pot.
This isn't hard. You'd think on a poker site even someone as silly as yourself could grasp this concept. Apparently not.
cup, sometimes man... again, you bring up a bunch of random word salad that has nothing to do with what is being discussed at all
1 tsla stock has fsd robotaxis by 2020 baked into the valuation
2 it's 2021, fsd still far from operational
3 stock which reacts positively to promises doesn't react negatively to failures of promises
that is literally all that's been discussing
then you come in spewing a bunch "but it's cool man" and "look at shopify yo" as if any of that has any bearing those those 3 distinct points which are being discussed
seriously man, you're highly intelligent but you do this nonsense all the time, you're either a full time troll or have serious mental health issues blocking your ability to grasp the reality of what is being discussed because you always take a discusion of a,b,c and launch shtposts randomly talking about x,y,z instead
you need a better hobby, i'm putting you back on ignore, you contibute nothing here
Cuepee, the following sequence of events is what happens to fish and losers:
1. Have thesis that Tesla is somewhat likely to have robotaxis in 2020 and that that will soar the stock
2. Be completely, hopelessly, comically wrong on thesis. Thesis was a straight zero.
3. Get paid anyway
Tesla going up 20x despite being a pure lie/fraud when it comes to FSD is like a fish hitting a one outer. The fish is still a loser even though he drags the pot.
This isn't hard. You'd think on a poker site even someone as silly as yourself could grasp this concept. Apparently not.
TS you are just hopeless dumb and need to avoid engaging with me and getting exposed.
My reply to your post is 'who cares'.
I think you are just naïve and do not understand the extreme end of speculative investing.
I could cite endless examples of hyped up companies that did not even come close to realizing their vision that people bet on and made tons of money.
This idea that if they gambled on a company that did not meet that vision then regardless of how much money they made they are still a loser again just goes to show your understanding of investing is very narrow and i need to school you on different investment philosophies.
Heck the Venture Capital model (especially early stage) is predicated on a large number of big bet failures.
I know, due to you lack of understanding that market you are thinking right now 'what I did not know that. Hahaha those fish. They make lots of big bets on technologies that never get realized??? OMG fish'.
But that is honestly just on you. You are just naive and dumb and that is why you will rail against this and think that the only valid win in buying and selling stock is if the long run the company actually realizes on all its Long Bets and that simply is not the case.
My friend who took profits out of Tesla and paid off his mortgage and added massively to his retirement savings is not just a Fish/loser no matter how much you want to pretend that he can only be a winner if the company realizes on all its long tech bets.
You're so dumb that you conflate different things.
Thesis 1: Musk is a hot commodity in a growth happy world and his stock might rip => stock rips => not a fish move.
Thesis 2: (Alex Wice for example) Tesla is valued too high but Musk has a good chance of doing 2020 robotaxis => there was zero chance of robotaxis/thesis was comically wrong => stock rips => you're a fish who got lucky.
You need a hobby and a functioning brain. Since you can't get the latter, try the former?
Ah yes, insisting that you understand what others don't. The "people don't understand exponential growth" argument.
...
It is demonstrable fact they don't
I can say right now that if a CEO says tomorrow that;
- I and my team just acquired a public shell and even though we have not yet identified what business we are going to vend into it and run we have a goal of using it build a $1B company in the next 8 years by focusing on unique emerging technologies..
And based on their resumes some investors can make credible 'leap of faith' investments guys like you and TS would say 'no way'.
There is a complete ignorance on this site being demonstrated by many that an investment can be on a spectrum from 100% belief (air) to traditional Multiple based (Buffet style) and everything in between and THAT IS OK.
You can absolutely think someone betting on the guy with just a Team and Vision (and air) is crazy and that bet is low odds to ever pay off.
Another person can absolutely think, 'with these guys resumes I will get in on the ground floor, and think as they build out I will have several chances to take money off the table and de-risk my investment and maybe even freeroll. And another person can think, "I am long on this and will not sell until they hit the home run or crash'.
Guys like you and TS think you can stand on the sidelines and tell the others why they are wrong to make THEIR decisions based on the decisions YOU would make.
Sorry but someone who has made a ton of money off Tesla is not just wrong and a Fish regardless simply because a big part of the Tech vision has not been realized yet. It does not work that way. It is not that basic. And the more you guys argue it does the more you PROVE you do NOT understand this.
I mean you can certainly understand the area you play in, in the markets but you are demonstrating complete ignorance to other areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
cup, sometimes man... again, you bring up a bunch of random word salad that has nothing to do with what is being discussed at all
1 tsla stock has fsd robotaxis by 2020 baked into the valuation
2 it's 2021, fsd still far from operational
3 stock which reacts positively to promises doesn't react negatively to failures of promises
that is literally all that's been discussing
then you come in spewing a bunch "but it's cool man" and "look at shopify yo" as if any of that has any bearing those those 3 distinct points which are being discussed
seriously man, you're highly intelligent but you do this nonsense all the time, you're either a full time troll or have serious mental health issues blocking your ability to grasp the reality of what is being discussed because you always take a discusion of a,b,c and launch shtposts randomly talking about x,y,z instead
you need a better hobby, i'm putting you back on ignore, you contibute nothing here
No you spewing garbage.
You have created a false narrative that the Tesla bet is 100% on a singular aspect (Robotaxi) for all the investors when that is simply not the case.
You are speaking out of pure ignorance here.
Tesla devotees (of which I am not) such as ARK invest speak of the Convergence of a Multitude of factors as to why they believe Tesla is valued so high and can go higher.
The retort to this is not to say 'I don't agree with ARK or people who think like them' or even 'they are all nutters'. They are allowed to have differing investment philosophies to you and bet THEIR money, even if you disagree.
So you have created a false narratives (that the entire bet is robotaxi's) when it is not where they believe there are several paths, what they call Convergence' that can get Tesla there.
Does that mean that individualistic components of that overall menu will not get hyped more or less at times? No it does not. But you cannot PRETEND that means they are ALL-IN on a singular aspect and will sink or swim on that one and 'ZOMG LMFAO you bet on Tesla and they have not realized their Robotaxi visions so you are such a loser.
Only dumb people think that way.
For those who want to PRETEND that buying Tesla is solely about buying Robotaxi and 'ZOMG you got duped' here is good learning lesson for you about what one of the biggest Tesla Investors believes.
Now before you do it, let me help you not trip into a mistake. The wrong thing to do or say is 'ZOMG that ARK thing is a bubble about to collapse... hahaha', because if people want to believe that, that is fine. I don't own ARK and am not buying it any time soon.
The point you would be missing is they are making a bet with their money on a whole bunch of 'Moon Shots' and how they think certain companies play into them and how the Convergence in these sectors makes each part bigger than whole.
You don't have to agree with their bet and you can think they are dead wrong (and even short them) but to dismiss them as wrong and fish and other simply because they are making bets you see as too risky or 'off', is just silly.
It is proof people here do not understand the RANGE of what speculative investing is used for.
Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-27-2021 at 04:20 AM.
Reason: 3 posts merged
You are conflating TS's opinion of what a loser is with no one should invest speculatively and not only is it a horribly inaccurate take of what anyone here is saying, but its also fundamentally ignorant to what people post about on this forum.
People invested into a false premise and were rewarded. Its absolutely like getting it in bad and sucking out. Whether TS thinks that makes them a loser or not is completely irrelevant to anything, but its all you can focus on
I've said it before, but it bears repeating. You are the single worst poster in the history of BFI. There is not one single regular poster here that wants you to post at all. Your attempts to follow TS around and flail wildly at any comment he makes is childish, but also makes you look stupid as you expose yourself as ignorant on these topics.
You are conflating TS's opinion of what a loser is with no one should invest speculatively and not only is it a horribly inaccurate take of what anyone here is saying, but its also fundamentally ignorant to what people post about on this forum.
People invested into a false premise and were rewarded. Its absolutely like getting it in bad and sucking out. Whether TS thinks that makes them a loser or not is completely irrelevant to anything, but its all you can focus on
I've said it before, but it bears repeating. You are the single worst poster in the history of BFI. There is not one single regular poster here that wants you to post at all. Your attempts to follow TS around and flail wildly at any comment he makes is childish, but also makes you look stupid as you expose yourself as ignorant on these topics.
BFI is the forum laughed at by other forums more than any other and TS is more ridiculed in this forum and all others than anyone else.
So I am fine with his sycophants saying that. It is a badge of honor. This forum is full generally of a bunch of circle jerk 'know it alls' who actually know very little but pat each other on the back so much, it is hilarious. It is so much fun calling out their false position and then watching them backpedal and try to recraft into something that then makes sense to save face. TS is the king of that.
And no. See my prior post. TS has crafted a false narrative. He has stuffed a strawman and then proceeds to beat it up.
ARK disproves his thesis and pretense that everyone was All-In on Robotixis only and thus duped but got lucky.
That is FACTUALLY wrong and I can FACTUALLY prove that by citing ARK whose investment thesis is much bigger than that. There bet is much bigger than that.
So if TS knows of specific individuals who ONLY bought on Robotaxis solely and he wants to cite them and beat those people specifically up, go for it. But beyond that straw manning and applying to every Tesla holders as a fish and loser is factually wrong.
I not only own TS on the opinion debate but the fact one regularly. Sucks to be you guys that you don't like your circle jerk busted.
There is no comparison to make there. I've already said 'charge him' if he makes fraudulent claims that are illegal. Please put me back on ignore if that is the height of your deep thinking.
Lets be clear what we are discussing here and what I addressed.
- TS incessant laughing at and mocking at anyone who has made big money on Tesla as just a gullible fish and dumb.
- he says results based thinking does not save them
- Why? becuase he argues they all bought based on the singular self driving car hype which has not lived up to promises. Thus 'suckers'.
Is that true or is that a strawman position filled with ignorance and lies?
- it is a strawman and ignorant and stuffed full of lies and ARK alone demonstrates that
- my friend who also did not buy solely for self driving cars demonstrates that.
There are Tesla longs (like ARK) who see MULTIPLE big bets within Tesla that they think can justify its valuations.
That does not mean they are betting EACH and EVERY one will hit and win and they are suckers and wrong every time an area falls short.
Maybe the entire thing collapses in the future (would not be the first big bet company) and maybe it does not.
That is an OK bet for OTHERS to make and they are not wrong simply because it is not a bet you won't make.
This really does reek of the sore losers circle jerk. A bunch of guys who either bet against or missed Tesla who have rationalized why they were right and the others were wrong and they point and laugh at all those Tesla buyers and their money. Hahaha, those suckers.
I've already said 'charge him' if he makes fraudulent claims that are illegal.
That's already happened once. Many wonder why it hasn't happened multiple times again since, given that Musk has made additional fraudulent claims.
Investing in a company based on the fraudulent claims of a proven liar is a poor investment strategy, regardless of past results. Others are free to do as they like with their money but it does not change that fact.
Believe me, everyone here understands that it's possible to invest in any random nonsense and make money. You don't need to explain basic investing approaches. Just because someone makes money investing in a total fraud does not make that a good decision.
But the idea being spread by TS that everyone who had bought and made money on Tesla is just a nit who got lucky, despite being duped over robotaxi's because that was the entirety of their investment thesis, and 'hahaha what suckers they are', is just wrong and I have proven it wrong.
He is invested in that strawman as it makes him feel good and superior to guys who got rich playing Tesla for numerous reasons he could not see. Reasons from just momentum trading, to making big diverse 'Convergence bets' to other.
Whenever TS has a blind spot and misses an investment he reflexively has to label it as garbage and those who made money as stupid. He does the exact same with Bitcoin. Another holding I won't touch. But people making big gambles and bets on it are not just stupid even if it does not work in the long run.
IIRC, Musk blatantly lied about pretty much every single product they have, model 3 release date, tesla semis, roadster 2, cyber truck etc. All of them took years longer than what he said.
