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02-11-2021 , 09:01 PM

#13876

Xkf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 30,166

btw

tesla logs 0 miles tested with autonomous vehicles

Quote

02-12-2021 , 04:01 AM

#13877

heltok

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xkf

heltok's is the same line of thought among twitter bulls too. "edmunds = FUD!! check out this youtube video/forum post from a heavily invested tesla fanboy proving otherwise!"

ultimately it boils down to stonk price bro. trust forum people and youtubers more than news because stock price keeps going up, which works (until it doesn't)

it's the science-nerd version of Qanon people saying "don't trust the media, do your own research!" where research is watch random wackos on youtube rant about insane ****

Ok you win. I’m out. Have fun staying poor

Quote

02-12-2021 , 05:17 AM

#13878

ToothSayer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 13,237

heltok: Noted that you're holding at $820 and are sure that not buying Tesla at these prices will mean missing many bags. Congrats on your paper returns so far - they remain paper until you sell, which according to the above you're not doing.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 09:25 AM

#13879

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

last two days we had japan and norway recalling all older model s and x for the memory issue.
yet, here we are, another day, another recall:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN2AC0ZU

looks like the other agencies of the world are not that happy with wheels falling off.

expect the european recall for the memory problem in the near term.

Last edited by BooLoo; 02-12-2021 at 09:34 AM.

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02-12-2021 , 10:51 AM

#13880

Xkf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 30,166

Quote:

Originally Posted by heltok

Ok you win. I’m out. Have fun staying poor

i think you're good for this thread fwiw but i'm sure you know you'll take a lot of punches being bullish here (which you can just block with your phat wads of cash tbh)

Quote

02-12-2021 , 12:15 PM

#13881

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooLoo

yeah. but what happens when one of your seals or whatever goes from 99,999999999999% to 99,999999999998% and you can't keep up your vacuum and need to replace it?

That's why we have research, development, and projects.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 12:28 PM

#13882

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

lol
it's not like we don't have research, development and projects on vacuums for a few hundred years, but sure.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 12:50 PM

#13883

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

You want empirical formulas to tell you how to manage a complex system? It's a bit more complicated than that.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 01:30 PM

#13884

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

no. i want to know why something that's economically unviable by a ridiculous margin will be viable when you add a tunnel.

i would get the argument of avoiding mountains and curves if we already had straight line, above ground hyperloops between cities where that would work. but we don't even have that because even that is an economic nightmare.

this will go nowhere for decades - maybe some middle eastern oil country is willing to sink a few billions for prestige but that's it.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 01:33 PM

#13885

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

Why do we have tunnels under the Alps? Just because something is not economically viable in once circumstance does not make it economically non-viable in all circumstances.

And I'm not advocating tunnels for freight transport. In fact I think it can be done more effectively in the general case to use existing RoW. I do recognize that tunnels may be more effective in some cases.

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02-12-2021 , 01:52 PM

#13886

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

we have normal tunnels under the alps because you don't need to maintain a vacuum inside them.
the hyperloop cost is not in building the thing but in achieving and maintaining the vacuum.

making tunneling cheaper doesn't help you a bit.

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02-12-2021 , 01:55 PM

#13887

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

Can you tell me the project cost of a 50 mile tunnel for a Hyperloop maintained at 5% vacuum using materials optimized for the purpose, along with maintenance/service costs per annum?

I've never seen a sensitivity analysis chart of vacuum % and performance, if you have that I'd like to see it.

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02-12-2021 , 01:59 PM

#13888

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

watch the thunderfoot videos linked here.
he does the rough math of leakage allowed and the number of vacuum pumps required.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 02:04 PM

#13889

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

I've seen them. Wasted 45 minutes of my life when he could have gotten to the point in 3.

I'm aware that very low pressure vacuums are costly to produce and maintain. Unfortunately he never told us what the development and maintenance costs are for a low pressure hyperloop tunnel, nor did he show us a chart of cost vs. vacuum pressure. He appealed to our common senses to conclude that hyperloop is impossible.

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02-12-2021 , 02:10 PM

#13890

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

what he said was, that it was an insanely dumb thing to do, which is why musk is probably the right guy to do it.

if he wants to spend billions on that or finds some dictator to do that, fine. but it won't be serious competition to regular transport.

i'm all for the guy spending billions on stupid projects. just won't be my money.

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02-12-2021 , 02:14 PM

#13891

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

Does regular transport include the $100B California high speed train?

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02-12-2021 , 02:30 PM

#13892

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

if that ever starts working, it will be competition. and maybe the reason he'll have an even harder time selling his idea to california.

but most of the other western nations and especially china have pretty good existing train systems you'd have to compete against.

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02-12-2021 , 02:40 PM

#13893

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

So we can spend $100B on a project that will likely result in nothing, and not research an idea for the betterment of society at likely a tenth of the cost?

Of course a proposal should consider existing technology. But if you simply dismiss new ideas as impossible because conventional wisdom told us so society would get nowhere.

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02-12-2021 , 03:01 PM

#13894

grizy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,782

Just pointing out the obvious... digging tunnels through the vast expanses of flat land between American cities is really frigging stupid. Hyperloop's competition is the subway and just HSR. Against those two, hyperloop's speed advantage is... not great.

At longer distances where hyperloop could cut down on travel time (vs planes) with higher speeds and potential to have stations in city centers (instead of airports 40 minutes away), hyperloop starts to make sense to me on paper for the users. But at that point we're talking about much much higher capital investments in projects like transcontinental direct hyperloop between NYC and LA/SF type of project.

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02-12-2021 , 03:08 PM

#13895

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

For the record I do not think passenger transport using Hyperloop will happen in my lifetime for a myriad of reasons, primarily safety. I also am uncertain on the general use case for high performance Hyperloop. I am also not convinced that a bunch of $ should be spent on designing ways for people to move around when the need for that is likely diminishing over time. (space travel notwithstanding)

Hyperloop for freight does not require tunnels and the safety requirements of passenger transport. But I believe the use case will be shown for the benefit of society within the next 10 years.

Last edited by PokerHero77; 02-12-2021 at 03:13 PM.

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02-12-2021 , 03:10 PM

#13896

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerHero77

So we can spend $100B on a project that will likely result in nothing, and not research an idea for the betterment of society at likely a tenth of the cost?

maybe the idea is to fix us government corruption and ineptitude and not replace that project with something even more expensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerHero77

Of course a proposal should consider existing technology. But if you simply dismiss new ideas as impossible because conventional wisdom told us so society would get nowhere.

it's not impossible. i never said that.
if someone wants to give all their money to south-african lyle lanley, fine by me.

it's just not economically viable and won't be for decades.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 03:14 PM

#13897

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

For those interested, a direct tunnel from a given point on the surface of the Earth to any other surface point would enable a vehicle to travel the tunnel without propulsion in about 45 minutes.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 03:18 PM

#13898

PokerHero77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,977

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooLoo

maybe the idea is to fix us government corruption and ineptitude and not replace that project with something even more expensive.

Yeah, that is impossible.

Quote

02-12-2021 , 03:36 PM

#13899

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

Building a bunch of giant tube systems throughout the country side sounds like a terrible idea for the ecosystems it will invade, but of course that's not surprising coming from Elon who is a big supporter of one of the dirtiest technologies on the planet --> Bitcoin.