I'm saying analysts are damn bad at their job, just pointing out Jonas because he is especially horrible. If the reason for the $46 rise and the $25 drop is based on PTs of analyst (they're not the only reasons, but likely correlated in some way) that seems weird and lazy of investors. I don't understand bullish analysts either when they raise their PT with like 100% to barely keep up with the actual stock. Have they been sleeping the whole time or what? How does their opinion change over day to such high degree.

Of course you confuse all this with salt, which is normal for someone with an underdeveloped brain. I don't blame you.

They didn’t even lower their price target. They downgraded the stock but had to raise the target from $250 to $360, because of the recent run up lol. Hilarious.

Analyst price targets are important when 100% of the "investors" in the stock are drooling morons who don't have the slightest clue how to value the stock themselves.

Go look at the lowest quality dot com stocks in the late 90s (the ones that were bankrupt a few years later) to see how the markets react to analyst price targets in the same environment. TSLA is literally the exact same thing - a trash stock worth ~$0, bought up by mouthbreathers in a raging bull market.

Ok so according to you, how many of 20-30 or so analyst rating the stock would you say have accurate price targets, considering none of them have $0 as PT? Don't we agree Jonas has no clue what he is talking about? (his PT is > $0, in your view he values **** as $360)

Jonas was an early Tesla bull and the kept the faith for a very long time. He also made multiple correct up and down calls for years which gave him a lot of credibility. It's only the last 12 months or so he went a bit off the rails into fruit loop land. You don't know what you're talking about. He's well thought of and can move the stock.
I mean you're proving you have no clue how this stock works. At least $150 of the huge rise was due to analysts pumping the crap out of it, raising targets and writing bullish notes about how everything has turned around.

This isn't just Tesla, a lot of stocks in the market are driven by analysts and their commentary and data. In the absence of doing their own research and models, what should investors be looking at? Astrology?

They update at irregular intervals because that's just how it works. Usually when something changes like earnings or there's something big upcoming. And there's nothing wrong with changing price targets, stocks settle into patterns and are affected by the market as well. Tesla's soaring to $550 wouldn't have happened without a market breaking all time highs day after day, for example. Tesla is very high beta on market runs.

The only person obsessed with salt is you. Is there are reason for that:
Writing the above clueless commentary (and believing Musk at $420 "funding secured") and then claiming that others have an underdeveloped brain is delicious irony.

Oh and today wasn't just Jonas. California data came through and showed a massive drop in sales in what was previously their most reliable state with half of US volume:

The fact that this happened during a pull-forward due to the expiring credit isn't good news.

Oh and the Tesla bubble for the last 5 years has been in large part due to this hilariously dysfunctional cycle of events:

Step 1: Musk puts out knowingly fraudulent claims and projections for profit and sales
Step 2: Analysts believe him and set absurd EPS targets which they plug into their models to create price targets
Step 3: As the date approaches, reality sets in, but by that time a new fraudulent target has been created.

This has been going on since at least 2014. So it's a bit rich to get upset when they cause a small pullback. They've been your best friend in allowing Musk to bankroll his incompetence. Here are two graphs of average analyst EPS projections 2 years out, going up to the present as reality arrives:

2017 EPS projections:



2018 EPS projections:



It's the donkey-carrot over and over again, and the analysts have been willing participants.

It's right there in the graphs. So it's a bit weird to complain about the analysts now when they cause a pullback on a calling a massively overvalued bubble, massively overvalued. They've been willing participants in the fraud. Most analysts had Enron as a buy at the highs before the fraud proof hit. It's what they do.

Anyway the other leg of the Musk doctrine of stock fraud is to attack shorts, creating a partisan environment in which cult followers such as yourself, Kelvis, who need a Big Hero, support and bankroll them. It's classic conman. Musk is one of the best of his generation.

Who are the other nominees for best of generation? Elon seems like a slam dunk, unless there's someone out there with $20B+ who is so good they've gone completely undetected.

So analysts are doing a good job according to all the "frawwwwwdd dd!!!! drool drool" folks? Shouldn't the price target for a worthless scam stock be $0?

No. Try to figure out why? What's the target for?

What were the analyst price targets of Enron in 2000? Average recommendation? Were there any zeros at all? Answer that and you've answered your question.
Elizabeth Holmes was an amazing talent. She came from nothing to convince the same people who love Elon (like Larry Ellison) that she was a genius who'd figured out what no other person had done - how to do reliable tests from a tiny prick of blood. On its face the claim was absurd for 50 different reasons, yet she was on the cover of every magazine and turned a worthless scam into $10 billion dollars. Had multiple investors, tech guys and reporters call her a genius. That's an incredible accomplishment. Or maybe it shows how low the bar is for spotting fraud - even a total scam with zero of their claimed products (and a highly unlikely one at that) managed to get to where it did.

You can see how a guy like Elon could prosper in that world, particularly with a bit of luck (arriving just in time for the early Internet boom) and daddy's money.

Not for fair valuations, that's for sure.

Agree she's up there in the greatest conmen of the 21st century. But she reached $10B valuation, and then she got caught.

In comparison, Elon has hit nearly $100B with Tesla, of which he personally owns $20B+, and despite infinite lawsuits is still going strong. He could have serious longevity. Most of the things being labeled as fraud, correctly or incorrectly, won't bury the company even if exposed - they'll result in fines and settlements and judgments that won't be big enough to bury Tesla. There's no single point of failure like there was with Theranos (they faked tests. they didn't work.). And he's only getting started in China...

I don't think it's close that Holmes > Musk. $10 billion with what Holmes started with is way more impressive than $150 billion with Daddy's money and other family help at the start of the Internet boom. Musk could actually buy into legitimate businesses with that level of cash, find competent people and pay them handsomely to do his work, pay to build PR, network with other rich people. Holmes had to fraud it up from scratch, pull in investors, etc, all while having nothing but pure bullshit. It's truly extraordinary what she did.

>90% of frauds only fall apart when money gets tight, usually in a recession. Theranos was an exception. They're probably still be going if not for a very motivated reporter.

She def wins the most blatant/bold con award. Just depends on the criteria I guess.

Holmes did not come from nothing exactly, her family was well off, she had a good education including private tutors, and family connections in the US (her father was a VP at Enron incidentally). Theranos had a good idea, but never produced a functional product. The IP auction during liquidation supports this.

She had an idea that sounded good to the uneducated, but it was never a good idea in practice.

We don't have the technology to produce test results with tiny drops of blood. She lied about having that technology, she never had it. There was no way to produce a functional product if you lie about the science and technology.

I have an idea for a fully self-driving car.

I think you missed the part where fully functional fsd is complete and coming soon

The autodrive technology isn't perfect yet but it's much safer than a human driving with no tech assistance. Plus the car's physical structure is very safe. You should all go out and buy Teslas for yourselves and your kids. Shorts too, you can lose your money but don't lose your life.

Haha. Get ready for some heat kid.

Teslas aren't the world's safest car. It's not even close (despite its body construction and weight). They're actually among the world's most dangerous cars. And this is easy to prove.

Teslas have caused at least 114 deaths from a small fleet size of ~600K cars (a bit more than a million registered vehicle years at this point). Probably many more than this as these numbers come solely from deaths reported in the media. This comes out to be about 80 deaths per million registered vehicle years, which is 4-20x times the rate of other large luxury cars.

Teslas are among the least safe cars on the road. That's a fact.

There are some cars that have zero deaths despite total more registered vehicle years than Tesla. These stats are per million registered vehicle years:



Tesla's rate comes out at at least 80, and probably far higher as these are deaths only reported in news sources. The claims that Tesla are safer are pure baloney. They respond well in fake crash tests (they're very heavy luxury cars) but in real world usage they're the most dangerous cars around, for both occupants and other road users.

You've been conned by a conman, Pippi.

their job is literally to come up with a good story and be nice to management so their bank can get in on that sell side business.
tesla has been a gold mine for investment banks.

What does cause mean in the TSLAQ world?

It's not just the cars. Factory conditions for employees are just as unsafe. What Tesla Whistle-blower Martin Tripp risked his life to expose:

"A major safety, a public safety concern."

You can see what an unhinged personality is steering the ship - making a joke out of massive loss of life with a "prank" mass shooter. A Pol Pot wannabe in the making. Just a lost and damned soul, misguided nihilist, who thinks we're living in a simulation and all these injuries and deaths "aren't real".

Ambulances have also had to respond over 100 times in 3 years at one factory. (Nearly once a week someone is hurt so badly emergency services are required).

Didn't mention it earlier, but I'm a bit of an insider since one of my relatives worked for Elon the last few years. And he's suffered no less than 5 heart attacks in that time. If I could figure out how to sue or bring criminal felony endangerment charges I would.

And of course the public safety threat of cars and solar panels catching fire. Might take a regulatory body to fix this disaster, history repeating like what happened with the SEC takedown.