Looked at this today and the reviews on Amazon seem as phony as the stock price. The 2nd most "helpful" review is a picture of the book in the trunk of someone's car? Is it possible to be more unnatural and staged? Maybe the "unexpected" fail of shatter proof windows?

This guy seems to think everyone is an idiot except him. Extremely myopic, but more importantly disrespectful. Fans aren't stupid. If you try to shove Milli Vanilli down their throats, you'll end up having to give back a Grammy. (Also see Stephen King trying to write as Richard Bachman. A fan noticed similarities in writing style, and a quick Library of Congress search it's game over).

Does the book talk about Elon getting thrown down a flight of stairs and beaten until he blacked out? This is not confidence inspiring. People are looking to Wall Street for "winners", and leopards don't change their spots. You're the same person at 5 as you are at 50.

Participation trophies gone bonkers. I Googled "what sports does Elon Musk play", and lo and behold nothing. Not one. Doesn't seem to understand competition - a clear winner and clear loser. Probably why he refuses to advertise. Hearts and minds aren't won with money.

Worse maybe than the phoniness is the unoriginality. Looking at the cover of that book, Musk seems to be desperately positioning himself as "the next Steve Jobs". Similar to what they they attempted with Rory Mcilroy as "the next Tiger Woods". We already have a Steve Jobs and Tiger Woods, how about you just be yourself? Walking Dead brainless zombie wind up robot toys am I the only one thinking for myself?

Iirc the book is very harsh on him and paints him as a weirdo who can't really figure anything out, has no special talent and got super lucky during the bubble

It's very much about the only thing that makes him unique is he's willing to go broke chasing his super ambitious dreams and is able to utilize social media well to promote them whereas most people in his situation would take the Thiel route instead

FFS man... it's a biography you'd like reading but you're too focused on your unfounded conspiracies to open your eyes because instead of reading an actual review you went to Amazon reviews, took a cursory glance and then drew your own conclusions... I find it scary people like you exist

And yes, it does talk about how he had no friends and got beaten up all the time

You should also know that Elon very publicly complained about not having editorial control and doesn't like much of what is written in it, he thought he'd have final say in the content. You can easily see why he'd be upset over the book of you actually read it.

What were some of the things he said that makes you think, "everyone is an idiot, except him?"

I can see judging him for that, but its not really fair to judge him for being bullied and not being athletic.

Wasn't criticisizng him for being unathletic. In fact, I don't have a problem with any individual (nor do I tell lies), which makes my life very easy. My problem is with the lack of real competition - sporting chances. It's a systematic issue plagueing America, and why I was over in Thailand.

Also, why Kubrick left America for England. What he called "destructive competitiveness". People on a poker site should appreciate this considering the WSOP appears on ESPN.

When I was in med school people at the top of the class were often referred to as "gunners". People gunning for the best score on exams. (Some were content to graduate. P = M. D. in Pass/Fail grading). This term was applied to me, and it also carried a negative connotation. However, there's two ways to go about being the best as Kubrick delineates. You can sabotage the competition, or hope everyone brings their A game and you shine the brightest.

Do you want win/win, or must someone lose? The latter is the "cruel" option, and seems to represent the Musk approach (and America in general). As I said it's not an individual fault, but a broken system of thinking.

In my opinion, we never would have heard of Elon Musk inside a healthy framework. They're attempting to "manufacture celebrity" when that's not how celebrity works. The guy who attracts the most attention is the one who becomes the most famous. You can't steer people's attention to an object or person that's repulsive. That's what I was referring to when I said they think everyone is stupid. People are attracted to what they're attracted to. It can't be forced.

Vernon Unsworth itt.

That is indeed why people consider going to Thailand. Sporting chances. At least make up something plausible like diving or something like that.

sex tourism and cheap pad Thai

I read the Rolling Stone interview. This is the only passage I found that was relative to what you're talking about:

"Do you consider yourself an expatriate?

Because I direct films, I have to live in a major English-speaking production center. That narrows it down to three places: Los Angeles, New York and London. I like New York, but it’s inferior to London as a production center. Hollywood is best, but I don’t like living there.
You read books or see films that depict people being corrupted by Hollywood, but it isn’t that. It’s this tremendous sense of insecurity. A lot of destructive competitiveness. In comparison, England seems very remote. I try to keep up, read the trade papers, but it’s good to get it on paper and not have to hear it every place you go. I think it’s good to just do the work and insulate yourself from that undercurrent of low-level malevolence."

You made quite the jump there didn't you? Seems to me, your post and inference about "destructive competitiveness" having some sort of grand meaning about Musk's life, capitalism, and America, is more a referrendum on how people see what they want to see and confirmation bias than anything else.

Quite extraordinary actually...

If I don't put "all" my money into TSLA when it goes below $250 next year, I shall be banned from this forum.

I think the point he is trying to make is people and aggregations of humans tend to internalize a certain philosophy pertaining to competition in regards to industry and economics.

The West has industries that are resistant to innovation and will try to sabotage alternatives, disruptors in order to maintain a status quo, keep the playing field uneven etc if they cannot directly benefit from the disruption. Is that healthy for the consumer or progress as a whole?

It all works to a certain extent until you have an actor, read china, who becomes powerful enough to capitalize on the industries that have become dependent on stagnation. They at once make the west look dishonest in its advancement goals and the companies themselves have a hard time pivoting in the face of direct and competing innovation. Planned malfeasance is common when you have a dominating market share and can count on buying your product again, plus you have stock holders to keep happy.

Im no fan of the destructive philosophy simply because it will be shown as weakness in the end once a real player comes.

Musk may be promoted in capitalist media, when he wasn't always, because he's seen as one of the few public innovators that is pushing things forward at the last minute when we havn't been sincere about civilian application of tech we have likely developed. Yes its a PR move when you consider systemic advancements and other aerospace/ propulsion achievements of Cn/Rs hes like our last hope (publicly).

For perspective, we cant get one of his infrastructure designs off the ground in the US but china is fully connected or will be soon by high speed rail system.

What are some scenarios where tesla goes to zero? How much money would puts make at current price is it went do zero? I am just skeptical of this bull run.

Calls Xi a pedo

Market tanks like people have been thinking it would for the last 10ish years

A cache of more fraud discovered, actual punishment w actual damage (think Antonio Brown situation, where a laundry list of incidents were uncovered, far beyond the publicly known/expected)

Musk himself has stated they were weeks or days from insolvency or something. He doesn't care about the health of the company. Just his narcissistic whims, the stock price, and his relentless pursuit of pushing the bounds of humankind w rockets and electric cars...He's willing to die penniless in this pursuit it seems, though that isn't congruent with his narcissism. I dunno. He's gotta weird mind, temperament, and pattern of behavior. That said, although he has shareholders to answer to, it's entirely possible he drives it to zero purely as a function of being him. Dude is high variance, put simply

Sales and demand from competition is always looming. It looks like they are dead last in the FSD race. They have arguably superior cars now. Will that be the case in the near future? They can barely make money now. If not now, when, when the majors come out in full force?

It's also entirely possible, given his personality, he abuses women. Nonzero chance he actually beat Grimes, other women...going to jail could be disastrous in a company seemingly as disorganized as this one

Calls Trump a pedo

That's all I got

Iirc in the book they said that both spacex and tesla were hours from bankruptcy and musk had sunk all his money plus everything he could beg or borrow from friends and family into it. Guy has an absolutely insane risk tolerance.

Vance's book is a cleverly written hagiography in my view. A lot of it isn't real. If you think he didn't carefully pick Vance and approve every single line then I think you're a little naive. Musk spent a long time carefully manufacturing his celebrity. He's been cultivating press for himself and deliberately building a cult of personality as far back as 2006. Here's him freaking out and threatening to fire Tesla's PR firm if he doesn't get media coverage:



And demanding press everywhere he can get it:



His agreement with Paypal (which he didn't found at all and had little to do with) requires it to refer to him as a founder (as he is claimed in Tesla even though he merely bought in later).

You can assume that anything that Musk says about himself is bullshit. He came from a filthy rich family who owned African emerald mines (see this article for example), and I'd bet you a signed dollar they bankrolled him and his brother's early ventures and their failures as well - even the book says he borrowed from "friends and family" which means his filthy rich father bankrolling him. He was in the right place at the right time with big balls and a conman's money-raising savvy and a great sense of how to get government money, and hit a few rivers and $6 billion in government subsidies.

The rest is carefully manufactured press an the Elizabeth Holmes effect where everyone lauds you as a genius and a visionary and invests with you (see: Larry Ellison among many) once you get famous and the narrative gets established.

As far as fraud goes it's pretty simple. Musk has committed:

- Numerous criminal material deliberate lies, including huge ones like "funding secured" and "5000/week by the end of 2017" and "solar roof tiles ready to enter volume manufacturing " in 2016 and "FSD feature completely by end year". He's the most fraudulent large cap CEO of the millenia so far, and it's not close.

- Numerous defrauding of government across at least two of his businesses - the battery swap to get credits they had no right to, SolarCity committing pure fraud in overstating its costs, $750 million of NY money, etc

- Major embezzlement of funds from SpaceX for his own gain

Are these public easily caught frauds the only frauds Musk has engaged in? The only sane answer to that would have to be less than 20%. For example, if last quareter he had 94K deliveries and needed 97K for the stock to not tank, given all of the above, would he have done some trickery? You bet he would have. Similarly for "profitability" in Q3 that has sent the stock up 100%. If he was $500 million short, would he have papered it over with supplier agreements and dishonest recognition? You bet. The entire accounting staff with 3x industry average pay and stock options quit for a very good reason...

TS if it's a hagiography then it's pretty next level meta, it describes all those negative aspects

I literally finished it thinking what a lucky narcissistic weirdo who is more likely to finish busto than anything else because he has degenerate risk tolerance

The best celebrities court controversy. The Kardashians launch a billion dollar industry from a sex tape. If I were Musk I'd be happy being portrayed as a flawed visionary gambler who take big and bold and sometimes crazy bets (and won).

The Vance biography is likely responsible for a good amount of his cult appeal, which translates into sales, advocacy, press and investors. The carefully tended media praise did the rest.

He may appeal to types that follow Kardashians by playing the WWE heel role to the hilt because of "drama" and "reaction" subculture. But his one track mind of not even considering diplomatic solutions where all parties are at least somewhat happy has really upset people in power.

You have to learn to play nice with politicians if you want to get anything done. A perfect example being real estate developers who have to navigate zoning, licensing, inspections, etc which all go through electected officials. You may be the best builder in the world, but you won't be developing anything if they don't like you. This is classic self inflicted wound, and Elon has shot himself in the foot trying to steamroll everyone with no subtlety.

Didn't bring up anything having to do with SpaceX because this was a Tesla thread, but even the military is telling Musk to "go f himself. Elon thought he was being cute with numerology on Joe Rogan requesting to appear on episode #1169. And the military responded on April 11th (the 411) with a $69 million contract saying do not want. Nasa is military by another name. Just like the NRA is a CIA front. (Why Maria Butina the Russian spy got 2 years for infiltrating).

https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-...ad-11577714572

the Y might be good for a pump for its first quarter, but how is there any chance in hell it won't cannibalize model 3 sales?

there is no third row in practice, so the target market overlaps at least ~80% with model 3

Entered some put positions for Tesla going to zero. Will buy more if Tesla goes 500+. I think this is an interesting opportunity to be contrarian. Obv could be wrong but if Musk really is a fraud seems like easy money. Has a stock ever gone from high triple digits to zero before? I see both bear and bull cases here I just think its fun to take long shot.

I think you’re better off just shorting the shares if that is your m.o. Morishita layed out pretty well how the leaps playing for bankruptcy didn’t work. I initially opened a small put position as well at $300+ recently but decided to straight up short the shares after this went quite against me. I’m average at $375 now and aim for lower $300s to close this position eventually.

Enron was at $90/share for a while. SHLD and RAD come to mind as well

Not a bad idea. I am to scared to short but I wouldn't be surprised to see stock in 300s very soon. Maybe like ATH of 450?

The euphoria on twitter seemed very bubble/btc esque another reason why I took the put.