Having a product that people like to use is kind of an important metric.

I mean, I absolutely loved my custom gaming laptop and that company went under. It might have accelerated the process if there was a button I could press that would spray trace amounts of asbestos in my face. Just a small chance of death!

Tesla' segment appears to be make/sell lots of cars but lose money.

That was their stated price at the time. Nice selective quoting. Taycan is in the news today for all of the reasons in that post - it kicks the **** out of S/X/Roadster as a desirable flagship car. Clearly there's a lot more demand than anticipated....Tesla is dropping prices like mad to no avail (sales are in the toilet) while Porsche are ramping theirs up...says it all about what the market wants.

Taycan also had nothing to do with bankruptcy. It had a lot to do with S/X demand crumbling, which had Tesla panic-dropping prices even though they're already taking massive losses each quarter. There are 30K preorders for Taycan. That's 1/3 of Tesla's old demand for S/X, which was previously the world's flagship auto. That's actual preorders, and doesn't count people who hold off on S/X because good competition is coming.

Your timing is impeccable by the way. Tesla is getting sold off decently in a very very strong up market because S/X sales in the US are in the toilet and 3 is weak. InsideEVs August numbers just came out. Bravo sir.

Wait, you're actually quoting me talking about a Tesla crash at $360 last year? Thanks for that....nice to be reminded how far it's fallen.

As the stock tanked Musk panicked and invented pure fraud "2020 Autonomous Robotaxis" to desperately try to halt it, and it worked, at least well enough to sell some bonds and keep it above $220 and bribe the banks with a few hundred million in underwriting fees and insurance. He's an amazing conman and money hustler.

Yeah it takes a cosmic level genius to sell a car that costs $50k to make all-inclusive, for $38K. Why didn't I think of that?!

It's a nice way to stimulate demand, but that's not a business, it's a charity.

EVs are going to take over the market in some years but they're not economically viable now, especially with Tesla's crazy manufacturing and management incompetence. Losing $13 billion to produce a few hundred K cars is just nuts. And not an indication of competitive demand.

August numbers out

Lol, 175 puts after earnings are 7$.

Still might be worth it

Porsche has to make a profit while every car tesla sells is subsidized by both taxpayers and shareholders.

Of course that's only part of the price difference.

So Norway is causing eu-evs to make Europe look better than it actually is. good to know.

Germany, the largest plug-in market in Europe, has record breaking low Model 3 sales. So yeah I think Holland is skewing Europe extrapolation.

I got a Model X a couple months ago. It's actually not legal in my state to operate a car without paying attention to the road, so that's answer number 1. The car enforces this by turning off self-driving if it doesn't detect your hands on the wheel and you don't respond to prompts. There are a few disclaimers that all the autopilot features are beta and that you still have to pay attention while driving, but that's about it.

In practice, it would feel very uncomfortable to fully hand over control to AP while driving at high speeds anyways, so I mostly only really rely on it for stop-and-go traffic (where it's awesome). For higher speed driving, I still drive with it on, but just as an extra safety feature.

It's a growth strategy. Focusing on profit later, once you achieve market dominance, is a common strategy amongst tech companies.

Do you appreciate the tension between pursuing rapid growth vis-a-vis profitability? Or are you ignorant of this?

If you had said Tesla has been pursuing rapid growth at the expense of profitability, and expressed an opinion that is not the correct strategy because of [x], [y], [z] reasons, that might be reasonable. But dismissing it as charity is beyond stupid. Anyway, Tesla will be profitable soon enough.

One of the reasons growth is so important: the ROI on Tesla increasing manufacturing scale and market share could increase non-linearly because of other components of its business strategy, such as FSD and robotaxis, which benefit from scale and network effects.

Nope.

Porsche has always been one of my personal favorite makers, and the Taycan looks gorgeous, but it can't compete with Tesla.

Porsche Taycan ($150,900): 0 to 62 mph (100 kph) < 3.5 seconds.

Tesla M3 AWD Performance ($55,900): 0 to 62 mph < 3.4 seconds.

Tesla MS Performance ($99,900): 0 to 62 mph < 2.6 seconds.

Tesla 2020 Roadster ($200,000): 0 to 62 mph, TBC, estimate: 1.9 - 2.1 seconds.

What's wrong with you? You're just a complete waste of space who spreads pure misinformation (deliberately?).

Porsche Taycan is here: 0-60 mph in 2.6 sec

As for comparisons, Tesla are cuck cars: all show but no guts because of incompetent engineering. They fail comically on the track:

Basically a loser poser's car - all show and no guts.

You appear to be referencing a different (even more expensive, less competitive) variant rather than the base model.

Also, not to be a stickler, but 0 to 60 mph is not the same as 0 to 62 mph.

Do you have Torret's Syndrome?

Track performance is irrelevant to 99.99999999999% of consumers.

If you think having a car that crushes it on the track is the distinction between winners and losers in life, you have some issues.

welp

lol. This is the crux of the matter:
Promise delivered in spades - amazing track times and reliable endurance with ultra-fast speed. It's well known that Teslas are an engineering joke when it comes to speed and endurance..I linked that above. This is an actual high performance high quality car that can perform reliably. Oh and it charges a fraction of the time of a Tesla and has an actual luxury interior.

Like I said, it kicks the **** out of the Tesla as a flagship car.

To your edit: They're talking about the drain on range, you clown, not dying after one lap like Teslas do.

Porsche's product manager is your source?

Allow me to retort.

Elon Musk says Tesla > Porsche. Case closed!

For TSLA stock, this is irrelevant. The % of people who buy cars for their track performance is extremely low. Nobody is going to pay 2-3x for a car that performs worse in normal driving conditions, particularly when the maker lacks technical vision and does not have a roadmap of innovative over the air upgrades.

Ridin' on a horse, ha
You can whip your Porsche
I been in the valley
You ain't been up off that porch, now

Even Musk isn't that much of a liar.

It's from Road & Track...Tesla's horrific performance problems at high speed are well known..and I posted the article, it's just amusing to have Porsche's team bag Tesla and then deliver in spades. It's well known that Teslas can't handle the racetrack (everything falls apart in one lap), and that Ludicrous mode is a facade.

More gold from that Road & Track article about the Tesla:
Wow, what an absolute joke. "Ludicrous mode" is kaput if you've used up less than 5% of the charge!!! Needs 3+ minutes cooldown to even get a second performance run. Breaks down after one lap on the racetrack. Compare with actual properly engineered Taycan which does crazy times on the racetrack and can accelerate over and over.

Taycan >>>> shitty Teslas as a flagship performance car. The end.

Oh and Taycan coming out should be good for high end S/X sales, which are already in the toilet even after Musk's desperate large price drops. Expect more quarters of spectacular losses for Tesla.

Roadster 2020. Enough said.

Fun fact: Porsche had a 72 year headstart on Tesla, and it's now trying to catch up, at a 2-3x price point.

Roadster 2020 can't match Porsche unless Tesla is radically changing their battery architecture - and they can't be since Tesla's R&D and capex are both on life support levels. Roadster acceleration will be based on the same stupid gimmick that "Ludicrous" is.

Porsche was never behind, and they're kicking the **** out of Tesla, not "catching up". A highly superior car in both engineering and interior quality with far faster charging.

Just saw this edit:
Someone buying a performance sports car want to be able to accelerate more than once at top speed before the car flakes out and overheats. They also want max acceleration without needing the battery over 95% charged. Tesla is a sad joke on this score, it's really quite comical, and S/X buyers have had a lot to say about the overheating problem.

Taycan performs better and charges faster thanks to its 800V architecture, are you just straight making **** up now?

How are you not a paid shill? This reads straight out of the paid shill playbook. And Porsches lacks "technical" vision despite wiping the floor with Tesla's creations?

Fortunately we don't have to rely on your opinion. We have hard data. Model S&X sales are in toilet - numbers were out yesterday in the US where the S/X is down 40% YoY, and Europe has been a joke for a long time despite desperate price cuts.

Meanwhile Taycan has 30K preorders and they're only just starting their PR.

Billy Ray Cyrus and Justin Beiber? lol bro. No wonder you like shitty Teslas that break down on the first lap if that's your music taste.

Tesla has accomplished a lot in a very short time.

The problem is it’s destroying shareholder value in the process.

Hilarious thing is Musk has always said that’s the plan and the S’s, X’s, and Roadsters are just subsidizing his real project: putting as many EVs on the road as possible and get rid of ICE.

It's like you're not even trying anymore.

I listen to this tesla podcast run by an irrational bull (not as bad as a lot, but still irrational).

He was comparing the Taycan specs to the model s and kept hammering on how much more money the Porsche is.

Tesla sold 100k cars and lost 400M. That means they need to sell each car for 5k more to be barely profitable, and then consider Porsche makes money. They make like 20k on every car sold. (I know this is a ridiculously rough comparison but the principles are true).

Any comparison between the two should consider how heavily Tesla cars are subsidized. If someone donated Porsche 10 billion they could sell Taycans for 50k.

"Porsche is at least 5 years behind Tesla" was the conclusion lol.