Meant “seems to have trashed the place”

No, there isn't really anything worth reading in the last ten pages or so. A significant percentage of solar roof cells installed on Walmarts have caught fire due to Tesla's incompetence, but that's not going to have significant stock impact. Discovery is about to (or has just started to) take place in the fraud case regarding Tesla bailing out SolarCity at shareholders' expense, and Tooth says this is worrying Musk and may have more fallout than the "Funding secured" case. Then there was a back and forth about global warming and what should be done about it. That's all I remember, although I don't really read any exchanges with descargado anymore.

It already has had a meaningful stock impact - about -10%.

The Walmart fires in isolation aren't terribly interesting except for the fire rate (>3%), but what they show is - rank incompetence and failure at every level of the organization to manage, document, train staff, follow safety procedures, deal competently with issues. And given that this is systemic they're not in isolation. Amazon just came forward saying Tesla panels caught fire on of its roofs (it only had 11 installed and 9% of those caught fire). There will be more roof fire stories.

These issues will be widespread and damage what's left of the brand. It gives current 10 and 20 year lessees an excuse to get out of their lease (or simply stop paying and/or ask for removal). Solar panels aren't like cars; repossession is near pointless and expensive besides. Good luck succeeding at suing a homeowner who wants the panels off their roof and out of the contract after widespread news of Tesla starting not 1, not 2, not 3, but fully 8 fires in Walmart stores due to truly astonishing incompetence.

It's not like this is happening to a good business. In its last year SCTY took in $800 million in revenues with $700 million in losses, which are just incredible numbers when you consider they're $3 billion in net debt on top of that. Solarcity was about to bankrupt which is why Musk pushed and pushed against resistance from the board - and lied about solar roofs - to bail out himself and his cousins. This kind of scandal would bankrupt healthy companies; Solarcity is not healthy.

And that's the other leg of this. Musk's desperation is inferred from his timing...Solarcity was being progressively shut down until discovery proceeded in that lawsuit, then suddenly they have a new panel rental business on a hastily slapped together website and Musk claims he is pushing solar roof production to 1000/week by the end of the year? That's fear and a desperate attempt to cover his tracks.

Meanwhile the Buffalo operation ("Gigafactory 2"), which is basically dead on the Tesla side and which Musk (the talented conman/fraud/money hustler) got $750 million in taxpayer money for, is barely operating except for Panasonic making solar panels which it exports (since SCTY is being shut down). Panasonic is now thinking of pulling out, in which case the factory goes dormant.



Vanity Fair has a nice piece out on Musk this morning that's worth reading: “He’s Full of ****”: How Elon Musk Fooled Investors, Bilked Taxpayers, and Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

The notion that Musk is a fraud, a liar and a loser is appearing in mainstream media now...you heard it here first 3.5 years ago ago at a time when the media was fawning over him and everyone who wasn't smart thought full autonomy was coming soon.

Solarcity is quite likely to be the thing that sends Tesla under. Billions in debt, a severe brand hit, removal of roofs/liability for damages now that Tesla fires are widespread mainstream news, a severe hit to the Musk brand (Vanity Fair wouldn't have dared print the above 3 years ago), a billion dollar investor lawsuit...that's the kind of stuff that sends a company under.

The Vanity Fair article is actually a great read..it's extremely in depth about the fraud and Musk's extensive lies. Well researched and gives you a background into all the issues.


“He’s Full of ****”: How Elon Musk Fooled Investors, Bilked Taxpayers, and Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

Some surprising bits in there too.

You can't seriously be attributing all of TSLA's stock decline over the past few days to this scandal-of-the-week solar panel story. Since the news broke, the NASDAQ has taken a beating, and prospects in China have deteriorated from bad economic numbers and their pledges to dig in regarding the trade war. I would say those two factors (market down and China) have more to do with TSLA's dip than this solar panel stuff.

You can just say 1 of 11. :^)

Anyway, I think in a couple months this solar panel thing is going to be a distant memory. TSLA is the Trump of stocks—it's Teflon, with a dedicated base that shrugs off news that to an objective outsider seems absolutely damning. I was under the impression Tesla's solar-roof business was a small offshoot of the company, so blowing it up completely seems pretty inconsequential.

You're contending this episode is important because it shows Tesla is incompetent, but we've had a dozen prior episodes of their incompetence, so I don't think this solar-roof fiasco is going to change anyone's mind in that regard. The bulls are betting on high deliveries and penetration in China and fully self-driving and ****ing robo-taxis. A setback in the solar-roof segment is hardly a blip on their radar. Maybe you're right that this lawsuit is going to rip the linchpin out and bankrupt Tesla, but I'm not holding my breath.

Ive been checking eu evs sporadically and it's always been just under q2, but now it's showing significantly higher for a while now. What happened?

You're filtered on Netherlands only

1. Risk $0
2. Ready Vanity Fair editorial
3. ???
4. PROFIT

Yes, most likely. Netherlands is strong this quarter while Norway is weak.

Keep in mind the limited relevance of such a comparison to this point anyway.

75% of Q2 sales in NL/NO/SP were from day 57 forward so whether we are 100 or 200 cars behind pace isn't all that significant.

The curve is now steepening.

Ah, yeah that was it. I was on work comp. It auto fills all on my phone/pc

Ah yes, the guy who claimed "funding was secured" at $420 and lied about solar roofs so that shareholders would bail out his cousins is to be believed and trusted, but everyone else is a short or a "pedo" when they question Musk. Sounds healthy and reasonable bro, and not at all a crazy cult.

Can we get a sober view of the FSD race and where Tesla stands in it? I know what you've had to say about it, ToothSayer, so save yourself the time of regurgitating your posts of the past, but add anything new that's relevant please. I'm curious the views of others, bull and bear (but more bull).

Right now, in my mind, I can see Tesla somehow surviving and thriving in the future. I doubt it, but I see it within the realm of possibility and Musk being one of those "moonshot boys" Charlie Munger commented on in a video posted ITT a while back. Yes, it's laughable depending on your view of Musk (I do laugh), but again, realm of possibility.

Gun to my head I'd say by the time FSD is achieved by Tesla the nationwide supercharger network in place will be obsolete. Either that or Tesla will be acquired by some company with superior leadership and thrive on that, with or without the...high variance help of Musk. Thoughts?

Two new articles about Waymo in "The Information":

Waymo’s Backseat Drivers: Confidential Data Reveals Self-Driving Taxi Hurdles

https://www.theinformation.com/artic...g-taxi-hurdles

Waymo Riders Describe Experiences on the Road

https://www.theinformation.com/artic...es-on-the-road

Of the rider feedback for the roughly 10,500 Waymo trips seen by The Information, about 6,100 were rides in the southern Phoenix suburbs where Waymo operates. Passengers there provided negative feedback for 30% of their rides in the recent two-month period. That is down from a complaint rate of 40% in the Phoenix market during the first quarter of the year, a figure from an earlier analysis by The Information.

ok, this is how this normally works. i know it might sounds ridiculous, but it's actually how other companies do it:

listen to the ceo.

elon says they will be done by the end of next year, which makes them the winner and sole fsd company for atleast a few years.

do you not believe him?

if you don't believe the ceo, why would you go anywhere near any company?

Sober view of fsd is 5 years earliest, likely as long as 10 years, and some say 20. As far as I know, other companies say 10 years if they are even willing to give a timeline. Musk says end of year.

As booloo said, do you not trust him? I'm going off what other CEOs and experts are saying. This means the sober view of Tesla is who the **** knows? Some think his methods are an outright dead end

There are no real updates since I explained why FSD is a pure con when Musk announced it in April. A few minor events happened though:

- Key team members have left. This isn't usual in software teams near a world-shattering breakthrough - Musk had claimed during "autonomous investor day" they will be feature complete by end of year.

- "Advanced summon" - finding its way at low speed around a parking lot - has been delayed "4 to 8 weeks" just recently. When explaining an earlier delay Musk called parking lots "surprisingly hard". Some alpha testers on the forums report that "advanced summon" is still broken/unimpressive. For example it doesn't respect roads vs parking spaces and just drives wherever there aren't obstacles. It stops right in the middle of lanes. Fails to respect left/right. The early release tester calls this "dangerous". No one appears wowed by it and the videos that show it are comically bad. Watch this video for example to see how howler-level comically bad this is. The first minute is plenty but it gets better.

BROKE: personal opinions about Tesla CEO.
WOKE: data and secondary sources relevant to state of FSD technology.
BESPOKE: Red Multicoat Model S, 21" Sonic Carbon Wheels, B&W interior, FSD capability.

I think your mind is BROKE from too much of your cult-like Elon love running into hard facts.

The "FSD capability" is hilarious. Current cars don't have the hardware for FSD - Musk is lying to you and it's not the first time - he claimed earlier cars were FSD compatible as well to get chumps to pay $5000 for vaporware too (they're now not FSD compatible).

And primary sources are plenty. Years ago I predicted the trajectory of FSD and how Musk's grand claims would fail because I looked at the primary sources - the quality of Tesla's software, the kind of mistakes it makes, etc. It was obvious then and it's obvious now. They are dead last in autonomous driving and nothing has changed. They even gave the game up with their embarrassing "autonomous investor day" which showed they are nowhere and have no chance of having FSD out within 5 years, let alone in 4 months. Elon is lying to you again as he has dozens of times before. He's a conman and fraud. How much more evidence do you need?

You are a low altitude flyer, regurgitating the same misinformation again and again.

This thread is about TSLA, not Musk, who YOU are fixated on/triggered by.

Tesla could replace Musk now with a generic CEO nobody has heard of (ala Uber and Zoox) and still excel. The foundation has been laid. Musk might leave to focus on SpaceX soon but we'll see.

You're also on the wrong side of multiple technology trends. In particular you vastly underestimate the speed at which EVs will replace ICE vehicles; and also the timeline for FSD.

Did you read the two Waymo articles above? It's a Google ("we're not a monopoly") vanity project that's drawing stone dead vs Tesla but even Waymo will exceed your incorrect and mind-numbing predictions.

We're talking about FSD/autonomous robotaxis in 2020. The only source of claims that they'll exist in 2020 is Elon Musk, a known liar and fraud. Thus his credibility is at issue. How is this hard for you? You're either very stupid or completely disingenuous or both.

If we take out Elon Musk:

- There are ZERO autonomous testing miles on public roads in California where their development team are located.
- Industry-leading analyses of autonomous driving progress puts Tesla dead last or 2nd-to-last.
- Tesla's public demonstrations so far have been buggy level 2. Nothing has been demonstrated beyond that.
- Tesla's promised leading edge "Advanced Summon" has been delayed and delayed, and early testers show a comically buggy incompetent system that can't even handle simple parking lot dynamics
- There is a long history of same.

Without Musk's claims, all the evidence leads you to conclude that Tesla are nowhere on autonomous driving. The only thing left is Musk's claims.

How is Tesla "excelling"? They've lost vast sums of money even with a celebrity CEO/PR genius to drive sales, incoming capital and hype/free PR (and get total losers like yourself in love with Elon to shill for them). Take Musk out and all the hype disappears. And indeed, the board via their 10Q and many analysts call the loss of Musk a severe key man risk.

WTF? The speed of EVs vs ICE has progressed exactly as predicted...around 40% growth per year since 2010. It will continue to grow at that rate. And that growth will make a mess of Tesla as competition comes in. Look at Model S/X - Tesla panic-dropped prices 40k euro overnight in many markets after sales crashed with the iPace and Taycan pre-sales competing, and still their sales are in the toilet.

You're a just a worthless piece of ****, here to be disingenuous and cast Tesla in a positive light via any spin or lies possible. You're either paid (Tesla has a paid social media team) or given your extremely low level of rhetorical skill, a sad loser who wants to pick up the drippings of a nerdy tech billionaire by living vicariously and shilling for him for free.
I've been spot on on the timeline for FSD, and particularly Tesla's. My proven record of FSD predictions in this thread is far more accurate than Musk's. Which isn't hard considering he has a 100% failure rate at his FSD predictions coming true.

What exact predictions are those? Quote them because you're full of **** (yet again). I'm highly optimistic on the timeline for autonomous driving, more optimistic than most. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else or are just lying again.

My dear chap, you seem to be mistaken (or wilfully ignorant).

Have you read the two articles on Waymo (above) from The Information?

"Industry-leading analyses" = Vanity Fair? Delightful!

This is a sincere and thoughtful request. Note he specifically told you (TS) to not regurgitate your usual rant, but you can't help yourself. Try to give him some useful info instead for once.

What the hell does that have to do with the state of Tesla? You're just making my point for me.
Once again you show your ignorance. I'm talking about this:



You of course don't realize there's a multi-billion dollar industry intelligence market that reports on such things.
I responded to you, not him. I've given lots of useful info and I've been spot on on autonomous driving in a way that's saved people money. I actually saved Alex Wice tens of thousands of dollars from buying Tesla recently at $240 when he thought Musk's "autonomous robotaxis by 2020" fraud could be credible. I also pointed out years ago (with copious evidence and reasoning) that Tesla had no chance in autonomous driving and that Musk's timelines were all nonsense, meaning Tesla had no path to $500 by now. Nothing has changed. Tesla are still nowhere and Musk is still selling his vaporware FSD fraud.

You on the other hand are just a very dumb shill. You've been owned so thoroughly by facts and evidence you've got nothing left but to troll.

And I did give him useful info. Here it is again:

That video is so damning to your narrative of Tesla months away from FSD (that I think even you know is BS) that you couldn't let it be the last post in the thread and had to try to and cast aspersion on the person posting it.

Another recent "enhanced summon" video from a huge Tesla fan. This is an absolute clown show.



- Ignores lane marking and drives the wrong way down the road
- Ignores parking markings
- Stops in the middle of the road
- Incredibly, painfully slow.

This is simply a parking lot, not a road with traffic and pedestrians...and they've been working on this for years (Musk promised it soon back in 2017, then in 6 weeks in late 2018).

But fully self driving will be ready next year, and not only that but running autonomous robotaxis. How gullible are you?

Where in your post can we see the source and DTG for that marvelous little chart of yours?

Did you draw it yourself?

It's terrific! Well done old sport.