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TSLA showing cracks? TSLA showing cracks?

08-22-2019 , 08:46 AM
A luxury brand, a battery factory, and instant credibility to wash away the diesel taint.

That worth 50 billion? IMO, not even close.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 08:53 AM
Battery factories are a dime a dozen and best outsourced. A battery factory with massive efficiency problems, Panasonic owning everything of worth (and contracts for 20 billion to be paid to them), bound to a particular antiquated slow charging technology and paying US wages is kind of nuts.

Taycan (VW owns Porsche) has a superior battery and engineering to Tesla so there's no benefit there. VW are far ahead of Tesla on autonomous driving (they're currently testing full level 4 in Hamburg) so there's no benefit there. VW are far ahead of Tesla on all aspects of car engineering so there's no benefit there.

Green cred brand and a US footprint are about the only benefits.

It's a great pump at a badly needed time as Tesla was selling off on Walmart. Kudos to Musk and team for their PR skills.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 08:57 AM
I think I'll look to rebuy the put I sold at 220
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 09:03 AM
JKC: I'm leaning toward this going higher on this pump (shorts are near maxed out and the bulls, being stupid and seeing this on deep lows, are invigorated). In my mind whether we go to $230 or not depends on whether there are big sellers from the Walmart news. I have no insight into that.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 09:27 AM
Awesome, that was a fast denial: Volkswagen Denies Report Saying CEO Diess Is Interested In Tesla Stake

Tesla the desperate penny stock with their fake news pumps...JKC you can think about rebuying those puts after all when the market opens.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 09:40 AM
That was a quick denial. Guess I should have shorted pre market or something.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 10:03 AM
'A banker close to Volkswagen said that while Diess would love to have Tesla’s software developers, the CEO believed it was almost impossible to justify paying $30 billion (27 billion euros) to buy the whole company.'

it's trading at $40b now. lol.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 10:06 AM
It's also higher than it was pre market. Do I interpret that as the rumor never had an impact on the stock?
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 10:07 AM
Moody's upgraded Tesla's rating from negative to stable.

"...Tesla has an adequate liquidity profile supported primarily by its $5 billion cash position. After giving consideration for approximately $1 billion in cash needed to fund normal ongoing operations, and $566 million to cover a November 2019 convertible note maturity, Tesla has incremental liquidity of approximately $3.4 billion. This affords the company an important cushion to contend with potential stress arising from softness in US demand, operational challenges accompanying its European and Chinese expansion plans, and the time that will be necessary to implement additional efficiency-enhancing initiatives..."

https://m.moodys.com/research/Moodys...red--PR_407645

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody's Investor Service
New York, August 20, 2019 -- Moody's Investors Service ("Moody's") affirmed Tesla, Inc.'s ratings including the B3 Corporate Family Rating (CFR) and Caa1 senior unsecured ratings, and changed the speculative grade liquidity rating to SGL-3 from SGL-4. The outlook changed to stable from negative.

RATINGS RATIONALE

Tesla's B3 CFR reflects its achievement of scale production of the Model 3 after struggling with significant manufacturing and assembly hurdles. As Model 3 output is now in line with Moody's earlier expectations the company should be able to achieve production efficiencies, lower costs, and strengthen automotive gross margins. This progress will be necessary if Tesla's automotive sales are to offset the sizable losses generated by the automotive service operations, and enable it to sustain net profitability. An important contributor to achieving net profit will be the sale of regulatory credits, which represent no incremental cost to the company and fall directly to earnings. We expect these sales, which accounted for over $400 million in revenues/earnings during 2018, will continue to grow as emission regulations become more restrictive in all major markets.

Moreover, Tesla's increased experience with its production processes have significantly reduced the level of capital expenditures needed to support its growth plans, with annual capex falling from approximately $4 billion in 2017 to a current run rate of $1.5 to $2 billion, thus providing a significant boost to expected cash flow. Nonetheless, Moody's still expects the company to generate modestly negative free cash flow during the coming twelve months, probably in the area of $500 million.

Finally, Tesla's liquidity position is now adequate, reflected by the SGL-3. Its $5 billion cash position will afford an important cushion to meet maturing debt obligations through 2021 and to contend with the operational challenges it will face during the coming year.

These challenges include: 1) improving the gross margin of its automotive operations while containing the losses in its solar and auto service businesses; 2) effectively executing the rapid expansion into Europe, where demand seems sound; 3) contending with ongoing US-China trade tensions as the company builds out the Shanghai production facility and launches the Chinese-market Model 3; and, 4) contending with the coming launch of more competitive battery electric vehicles (BEVs) from global automotive competitors.

The stable outlook anticipates that improving operating efficiencies of the Model 3, growing regulatory credit sales, and an adequate liquidity position will provide a sufficient runway to continue undertaking cost cutting initiatives that will improve profitability in the face of aggressive expansion plans.

Environmental, social and governance factors are important elements of Tesla's credit profile. The company's commitment to BEVs, backup battery power storage, and solar power generation provide a strong basis of environmental and social responsibility. Moreover, its ability to generate earnings from the sale of regulatory credits afford it a significant financial benefit. However, Tesla faces important corporate governance challenges. There has been significant turnover at the senior management ranks, including the recent stepping aside of the company's co-founder from day-to-day activities. Actions by Tesla's CEO, Elon Musk, have resulted in conflict with, and intervention by, the Securities and Exchange Commission, and have also contributed to periods of undue confusion within the capital markets regarding Tesla's operational and financial strategy. In addition, Mr. Musk's executive responsibilities with outside ventures such as SpaceX could tax his ability to adequately focus on Tesla's considerable challenges. Tesla's board of directors has not demonstrated meaningful oversight over the CEO's activities, and there are board members who have close personal ties to Mr. Musk. During 2018 a new chairperson was appointed and two additional board members were added. Nonetheless, Tesla retains a very weak corporate governance structure.

Tesla has an adequate liquidity profile supported primarily by its $5 billion cash position. After giving consideration for approximately $1 billion in cash needed to fund normal ongoing operations, and $566 million to cover a November 2019 convertible note maturity, Tesla has incremental liquidity of approximately $3.4 billion. This affords the company an important cushion to contend with potential stress arising from softness in US demand, operational challenges accompanying its European and Chinese expansion plans, and the time that will be necessary to implement additional efficiency-enhancing initiatives.

The rating could be upgraded if Tesla is able to demonstrate sustained profitability and positive free cash flow in the face of rapid expansion plans in Europe and China. The company would also need to maintain an adequate liquidity profile to support a higher rating.

The rating could be lowered if demand for its BEVs begins to soften in the US, or if the company falters in implementing its European or China expansion initiatives. The rating could also be lowered if the company cannot remain on a clear path to strengthening margins in the automotive operations and narrowing losses in its service business.
Baillie Gifford (owns 7.5% of Tesla) critical of Musk

https://seekingalpha.com/news/349391...ical-elon-musk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baillie Gifford
Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) stakeholder holder Baillie Gifford lightly suggests Elon Musk step down as CEO of the company in an interview published in a German magazine. The firm's James Anderson points to Musk's style of management and communication history with shareholders as sticking points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
VW are far ahead of Tesla on autonomous driving (they're currently testing full level 4 in Hamburg) so there's no benefit there.


Stylish. Where are the sensors? Imperceptible!!! Do these sell direct to consumers or do I have to go through a dealer?

Last edited by despacito; 08-22-2019 at 10:33 AM.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKC
It's also higher than it was pre market. Do I interpret that as the rumor never had an impact on the stock?
The stock was down nearly 1% on continued Walmart selling before the pump hit.

Pumps are always more widely disseminated that retractions. Then you have the hopeful (remember the gaggle of utter losers in this thread alone who had zero doubt that $420 funding secured was real?) who think there's a chance anyway and "of course VW would deny it".

This is kind of how conmen like Musk work. It's pure psychology.

1. Throw out a statement which has zero basis in fact
2. Some people (the despacitos of the world) swallow it uncritically
3. Failure to meet projections or later retraction is waved away, leaving a net positive effect.

Let me diagram this for you in terms of discrete human brains. 0 = neutral, 1 = positive

Initial sentiments in brains with no news (neutral case)
0000000000

Pure lie/fake projection/fake news pump told:
0010100101 + 0011 (four more interested parties gained from the media exposure)

Lie gets found out/projection fails later/fake news gets denied
0010000100 + 01 (two more interested parties remain after retraction)

The 1s who remains are people who don't notice the retraction, don't believe the retraction, or for whom the positivity is implanted emotionally (someone wants Tesla! I'm excited!) and the retraction has a smaller emotional/mindshare impact than the initial pump.

This is why pumps work and why the stock is still up higher than before the fake news. Tesla's stock price is basically this psychological effect on a multi-year scale with someone deliberating targeting the gullible in a talented way. I hope this helps your trading/investing.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
The stock was down nearly 1% on continued Walmart selling before the pump hit.

Pumps are always more widely disseminated that retractions. Then you have the hopeful (remember the gaggle of utter losers in this thread alone who had zero doubt that $420 funding secured was real?) who think there's a chance anyway and "of course VW would deny it".

This is kind of how conmen like Musk work. It's pure psychology.

1. Throw out a statement which has zero basis in fact
2. Some people (the despacitos of the world) swallow it uncritically
3. Failure to meet or later retraction is waved away, leaving a net positive effect.

Let me diagram this for you in terms of discrete human brains. 0 = neutral, 1 = positive

Initial sentiments in brains with no news (neutral case)
0000000000

Pure lie/fake projection/fake news pump told:
0010100101 + 0011 (four more interested parties gained from the media exposure)

Lie gets found out/projection fails later/fake news gets denied
0010000100 + 01 (two more interested parties remain after retraction)

The 1s who remains are people who don't notice the retraction, don't believe the retraction, or for whom the positivity is implanted emotionally (someone wants Tesla! I'm excited!) and the retraction has a smaller emotional/mindshare impact than the initial pump.

This is why pumps work and why the stock is still up higher than before the fake news. Tesla's stock price is basically this psychological effect on a multi-year scale with someone deliberating targeting the gullible in a talented way. I hope this helps your trading/investing.
Narrative fallacy.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by despacito
Moody's upgraded Tesla's rating from negative to stable.
Do you know what those ratings mean? Tesla bond rating has been "upgraded" from really, really, really crappy to really, really crappy.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
This is awesome - Tesla was dying premarket down 1% until a VW buyout rumor just came out. It's up nearly 3% now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Battery factories are a dime a dozen and best outsourced. A battery factory with massive efficiency problems, Panasonic owning everything of worth (and contracts for 20 billion to be paid to them), bound to a particular antiquated slow charging technology and paying US wages is kind of nuts.

Taycan (VW owns Porsche) has a superior battery and engineering to Tesla so there's no benefit there. VW are far ahead of Tesla on autonomous driving (they're currently testing full level 4 in Hamburg) so there's no benefit there. VW are far ahead of Tesla on all aspects of car engineering so there's no benefit there.

Green cred brand and a US footprint are about the only benefits.

It's a great pump at a badly needed time as Tesla was selling off on Walmart. Kudos to Musk and team for their PR skills .
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
JKC: I'm leaning toward this going higher on this pump (shorts are near maxed out and the bulls, being stupid and seeing this on deep lows, are invigorated). In my mind whether we go to $230 or not depends on whether there are big sellers from the Walmart news. I have no insight into that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Awesome, that was a fast denial: Volkswagen Denies Report Saying CEO Diess Is Interested In Tesla Stake

Tesla the desperate penny stock with their fake news pumps...JKC you can think about rebuying those puts after all when the market opens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
The stock was down nearly 1% on continued Walmart selling before the pump hit.

Pumps are always more widely disseminated that retractions. Then you have the hopeful (remember the gaggle of utter losers in this thread alone who had zero doubt that $420 funding secured was real?) who think there's a chance anyway and "of course VW would deny it".

This is kind of how conmen like Musk work. It's pure psychology.

1. Throw out a statement which has zero basis in fact
2. Some people (the despacitos of the world) swallow it uncritically
3. Failure to meet projections or later retraction is waved away, leaving a net positive effect.

Let me diagram this for you in terms of discrete human brains. 0 = neutral, 1 = positive

Initial sentiments in brains with no news (neutral case)
0000000000

Pure lie/fake projection/fake news pump told:
0010100101 + 0011 (four more interested parties gained from the media exposure)

Lie gets found out/projection fails later/fake news gets denied
0010000100 + 01 (two more interested parties remain after retraction)

The 1s who remains are people who don't notice the retraction, don't believe the retraction, or for whom the positivity is implanted emotionally (someone wants Tesla! I'm excited!) and the retraction has a smaller emotional/mindshare impact than the initial pump.

This is why pumps work and why the stock is still up higher than before the fake news. Tesla's stock price is basically this psychological effect on a multi-year scale with someone deliberating targeting the gullible in a talented way. I hope this helps your trading/investing.
Lmao good read, I especially loved the part where you called a 1% move "dying."
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKC
I'm not sure what VW would gain from buying tesla
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKC
I think I'll look to rebuy the put I sold at 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKC
That was a quick denial. Guess I should have shorted pre market or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKC
It's also higher than it was pre market. Do I interpret that as the rumor never had an impact on the stock?
You have a much better handle on what's going on than TS especially based on actually having successful shorts (with timestamps and not after the fact bs) in the past, let us know what you end up doing man on your positions and good luck.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 11:05 AM
Everything I posted was spot on and I completely agreed with JKC at every point. If VW hadn't given such a rapid contradiction to the story, it was going higher. Even after they contradicted Tesla remained higher until the market bombed. By the time the market opened we had the exact same position (you can't buy puts premarket).

You never were the sharpest tool in the shed.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Everything I posted was spot on and I completely agreed with JKC at every point. If VW hadn't given such a rapid contradiction to the story, it was going higher. Even after they contradicted Tesla remained higher until the market bombed. By the time the market opened we had the exact same position (you can't buy puts premarket).

You never were the sharpest tool in the shed.


You're in the bottom right yeah?

Must be nice.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Everything I posted was spot on and I completely agreed with JKC at every point. If VW hadn't given such a rapid contradiction to the story, it was going higher. Even after they contradicted Tesla remained higher until the market bombed.By the time the market opened we had the exact same position (you can't buy puts premarket).

You never were the sharpest tool in the shed.
So now the market down a little is "bombing" in addition to TSLA being down 1% "dying." No hyperbole there at all... At least we both agree JKC has a better grasp of the action than you do.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP17
So now the market down a little is "bombing" in addition to TSLA being down 1% "dying." No hyperbole there at all...
The market reversed nearly a percent in 50 minutes after early positivity, based on comments from two fed members about rates which I traded in real time. VIX rapidly spiked 10%. Bombing is a perfectly good word to describe that and I made nice money on it. Yesterday I made 100% on Tesla with great timing. It's what I do.

I used to post these trades here in real time, entries, exits, amounts, strikes, with very good results (which is why I have credibility with many older posters). I stopped and went to private chat when people like yourself started running amok....look at your last three posts. Zero content of any kind whatsoever, just pure BPD. Not even based in fact (all of my posts about Tesla were great and way more helpful than JKC's). I insulted you once years ago in a way that really cut and you've been desperate to denigrate me ever since. You can't let it go. It's classic BPD.
Quote:
At least we both agree JKC has a better grasp of the action than you do.
Nope, don't agree. Before the retraction buying puts was a bad idea as a run was the most likely outcome. After the retraction buying them was ok but not that great. We both agreed that this was a fake pump and that VW wouldn't want Tesla.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 12:51 PM
For the record, I don't know what I'm doing. But following this stock is entertaining and I'm making a little money doing it.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKC
For the record, I don't know what I'm doing. But following this stock is entertaining and I'm making a little money doing it.
Don't be modest though dude, not only have you posted a handful really nice trades BEFORE/DURING the fact you posted the exits as well. That's why I'm interested in the guys willing to talk their book (Morish is a great example) and not just bragging about it after the fact. Understanding your limitations is an important aspect of trading/investing as well.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 05:46 PM
Tesla is still in Full Decapitation Mode it seems. This reddit thread is hilarious.

I was in full control (Autopilot was engaged), but Autopilot would have ran right into the side of this crossing semi truck.

We're supposedly 4.5 months from Tesla being feature complete on level 5 self driving. Musk has:

- Postponed the very simple "advanced summon" feature "4 to 8 weeks" after promising it in 6 weeks 42 weeks ago.

- Not yet pushed through a software update to their "fully self driving hardware ready" Tesla fleet to allow them to distinguish GIANT TRUCKS blocking the road from overpasses, and thus prevent decapitations they've known about for 3 years.

The reason Teslas don't stop for trucks with a high center is because the Tesla's crack software team (about to go level 5!) have been unable in 3 years to tell a highway overpass from a truck with a high clearance. I **** you not, that is actually the reason. If they allow truck detection it brakes suddenly and randomly for overpasses which is unacceptable of course.

At the same time they're claiming that Teslas are learning in "shadow mode" and that they'll have fully autonomous robotaxis out in 2020 5x the value of your car and making you $100K/year besides.

This is such a transparently obvious and outlandish con that everyone will look back and go "WTF were we thinking believing this charlatan?"
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-22-2019 , 06:43 PM
have a feeling that karparthy will leave before the end of the year.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-23-2019 , 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Tesla is still in Full Decapitation Mode it seems. This reddit thread is hilarious.

I was in full control (Autopilot was engaged), but Autopilot would have ran right into the side of this crossing semi truck.

We're supposedly 4.5 months from Tesla being feature complete on level 5 self driving. Musk has:

- Postponed the very simple "advanced summon" feature "4 to 8 weeks" after promising it in 6 weeks 42 weeks ago.

- Not yet pushed through a software update to their "fully self driving hardware ready" Tesla fleet to allow them to distinguish GIANT TRUCKS blocking the road from overpasses, and thus prevent decapitations they've known about for 3 years.

The reason Teslas don't stop for trucks with a high center is because the Tesla's crack software team (about to go level 5!) have been unable in 3 years to tell a highway overpass from a truck with a high clearance. I **** you not, that is actually the reason. If they allow truck detection it brakes suddenly and randomly for overpasses which is unacceptable of course.

At the same time they're claiming that Teslas are learning in "shadow mode" and that they'll have fully autonomous robotaxis out in 2020 5x the value of your car and making you $100K/year besides.

This is such a transparently obvious and outlandish con that everyone will look back and go "WTF were we thinking believing this charlatan?"
That's cross traffic. Tesla autopilot (or whatever they call it now) never said it was ready for that. For the same reasons that Waymo still has trouble with unprotected lefts, highway merging, and Texas u-turns.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-23-2019 , 10:08 AM
All I'm hearing is no robotaxis this year or next
TSLA showing cracks? Quote
08-23-2019 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donfairplay
That's cross traffic. Tesla autopilot (or whatever they call it now) never said it was ready for that.
Just waiting for that software update! Any day now.
TSLA showing cracks? Quote

      
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