You’re right. For a pure hud you don’t need depth. I was really imagining a system with a constant 3D map that automatically tracks surgeon progress and overlay something like exactly where to cut with AR.

The next step then is obviously robot arms executing plans surgeons feed.

Which then ultimately leads to Robot surgeons.

Will they be fully autonomous?

Porsche mechanics already use ar.

"
Model S

SR: Gone
LR: $5K cheaper
Performance: $16K cheaper

Model X

SR: Gone
LR: $6K cheaper
Performance: $17K cheaper
"
https://twitter.com/DeanSheikh1/stat...70856383766529

^ Is this correct? Cheaper in this overnight change, or cheaper since earlier this year? My news services said they'd raised the price of the LR and the Performance by $5K each. I couldn't find the pricing page in the Wayback machine to check. I'm going to go with journalists being fake news/morons as usual, but it would be nice to confirm with hard data.

No, Dean is including the "Ludicrous" software upgrade which was previously $20k and is now included.

How is no one in TSLAQ scraping tesla website every day and logging prices?

I may write a program to do that.... but someone out there has to be already.

.

The spreadsheet with every price change is out there, I was just looking at it

This spreadsheet?

So he's a cashier at Target, and doesn't work the lunchline at musks open air sweat box?

I was thinking of something that tracked it daily. Maybe these are the only changes but the data and numbers quoted out there seem unreliable so I'd rather just see something straight from the website every day.

https://twitter.com/NAVYBOYUSA/statu...42779378343938

Guy buys model S for 117K in 2016. Currently owes 62k on car. Carmax offers him 38k.

Appreciating assets.

Yeah, Musk destroyed billions of dollars worth of customer value with the drastic price drops this year. ~400K S/X times $10K average hit per car after the huge $20-$40K price drops = $4 billion of customer value wiped out. The most recent buyers got screwed so hard. Imagine buying a car for $120K only to have a better version sell new for $85K the next week.

And the hilarious thing is, it did little to help S/X, which remained in the toilet. God knows what it's done to their leasing partners or resale value assumptions. What are the odds they accounted for that honestly?

Backing this cuck with your $ is a very expensive exercise. Shareholders buying at $370 for easy money on "funding secured" because they Trust In Elon learned that lesson too.

I should actually like the guy. He takes cash from morons with hilariously dumb lies (proving they're morons for believing him) and then puts it in a cash burning furnace (Tesla) so they never see it again. It's pretty great, the ultimate trolling even. Bonus points for all the green BS.

Jesus Christ, carrots in front of donkeys indeed:

How many cars with autonomous hardware did GM and Waymo ship last quarter (combined)?

This has to be a joke, right? We know nothing about the car and you can look at the prices for 2016 Model S used and see that almost all of them would cover his remaining balance.

I am not sure why people are as dumb as you and just take for face value what some idiot on Twitter posts. There is an abundance of data out there where you can roughly see the market value of the average 2016 Model S 90D.

Sorry for the personal attack. That was out of line.

Utterly false. Some have quit and others were fired. Both super standard for high growth companies pursuing innovation. Not at all surprising. Job mobility in tech is HIGH.

This is just one example, but you consistently post lies as facts and almost never provide credible sources to back up what you say.

This is not a valid comparison. Tesla is a young company and teething problems are to be expected as it scales vanilla manufacturing capabilities, even if you ignore the fact it is aggressively pursuing innovation.

Q: Before Tesla, when did the last car manufacturing company start up in the US?

A: This accomplishment is without recent precedent.

I have engaged in good faith and my posts have been honest.

Being predisposed to believe anyone without reservation would be a mistake, including Musk.

As for predicting the future, it's highly error-prone, and I may be proved wrong, but only time will tell. I don't know if Tesla will succeed. I hope it does. But I try to prevent that from biasing my judgment one way or the other.

Agree posts in this thread have been excessively negative. Also often wrong and at times dishonest.

BooLoo says profitable.

Financial statements say -£3.6bn loss in year to March 2019.

Who should we believe?

Even if you exclude asset write-downs (ie. ignore the fact the company's assets are worth WAY less than was previously reported) the loss was still -£358 Million.

No, it's your basic personality. Don't try and walk it back now because you want to crawl back a bit of cred after getting owned hard (and self-owning).

See this is you being stupid or disingenuous or downright lying again. It's a fact that most key staff have left (it's been extensively discussed and watched both here and by analysts), and the rate at which they left is highly unusual. Only toxic dying companies have this kind of rate of departure of high level execs. This is how the media describes it:

Timeline: The mass exodus of Tesla execs in the last 12 months

It's highly unusual and has touched all departments, from engineering to accounting (the entire senior accounting staff quit last year, and a high profile new hire quit after a month) to legal.

Who is the liar here? You. Or perhaps you're just very ignorant. Your desperate attempt to smear me is just making you look stupid, because this has been extensively documented and discussed and most participants are aware of the extreme level of executive departures for which there is no precedent that I'm aware of in a functioning company.

You're either an ignoramus or a liar - and you did yet another nasty personal attack above (completely unwarranted as I'm correct) at the same time, right after apologizing for one. That's hilarious.
How has failing at "vanilla manufacturing" got anything to do with "aggressively pursuing innovation"? And how old is Tesla, since you call it "young"? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? 8 years? 12 years? It's actually 16 years old. Closing in on two decades! That's not a young company. Moreover, the mistakes they're making are stupid and elementary. They're screwing up delivery at 3% of the volume of Ford, with Musk (the liar) claiming he can't find enough trucks. Screwing up servicing at 3% of the volume of Ford after 16 years of trying with Musk (the liar) claiming it's the fault of body shops [Tesla actually can't provide parts for weeks to months even to their own warranty service]. Screwing up basic manufacturing and logistics - they're making cars in a 1980s style tent, skipping testing and sticky taping things together. This isn't normal. This is chaos and incompetence flowing from an incompetent leader.

Musk has had no accomplishment. He's $5 billion down in taxpayer money and $9 billion down in investor money, all to make a tiny number of cars for rich people in the scheme of things. Any assclown can burn through $14 billion to make a few hundred K subsidized cars while he has an effective monopoly because they cost too much to be profitable.

Musk's skill is in PR and money hustling. That + a very long bull at low interest rates have enabled him to get lots of fresh capital. That all comes crashing down when capital dries up in the next recession, if Tesla survives that long.
Yeah man, you've been a paragon of reason, good faith and virtue.

Hah? He owes 62K on the car. 2016 Model S 90D ask prices range from $48K at the top of the market to $53K average. How is the bolded in any way a true statement? Add in the work he needs done (new tires, paintwork) and bid-ask and the offer is about right compared to market pricing.

A bit lowballed but at any price it's a hilarious point about how much Teslas devalue. A 3 year old car bought for $117K is now saleable for about $45K to a dealer. That's brutal. 62% loss of value in less than 3 years is the craziest depreciation of any car I've ever heard of.

That article doesn't say most key people have left and you haven't provided evidence of that.

Also from that article, David Morton, Chief Accounting Officer:

“Since I joined Tesla on August 6th, the level of public attention placed on the company, as well as the pace within the company, have exceeded my expectations. As a result, this caused me to reconsider my future... I want to be clear that I believe strongly in Tesla, its mission, and its future prospects, and I have no disagreements with Tesla’s leadership or its financial reporting.”

I have already said the rate of departures is high. We differ on the interpretation. I don't think it's fatal to the future of the company. In order to cultivate a high performing culture you have to fire fast. That is certainly not unique to Tesla. It's also especially true if you're inventing and scaling a new technology.

Complexity + velocity = high friction.


Tesla is a unique company. Why would you expect there to be a precedent? You seem to be reasoning by analogy, rather than first principles (a common mistake).

Yes, 16 years is very young for a car manufacturer. It's not a software company where you flick a switch and add capacity on AWS instantly. Scaling is difficult, painful, and time consuming.

Before Tesla, when was the last time a car manufacturer started up in the US and achieved 97,000 deliveries in a quarter (ie. which company and what year was it founded)?

I'll wait.

Paypal Founders: Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Max Levchin, Ken Howery, Luke Nosek, Yu Pan

Paypal Market Cap: USD $141 Billion

I'm not attempting to smear you. I just wish you would post credible sources for your claims; and not post things which are clearly false and unverifiable.

Tesla has arguably has also shipped zero since by their own admission their cars aren’t fully autonomous.

Unlike some bears in this thread, I do think Tesla has a huge advantage in having armies of volunteers willing to risk their lives to beta test for Tesla and feed Tesla data.

However, it is very clear Tesla isn’t actually collecting the data from their volunteer human lab rats. People have looked at data sent from the vehicles to Tesla and it’s basically nothing. At least nothing useful for AI training purposes.

What Tesla cars have right now isn’t much more than a bunch of extra cameras for advanced cruise control.

that's not the parent company.

you think tata would struggle to come up with a billion or two for recalls?

why don't you do your own research if you actually care about the truth and don't want to believe us?
write your own tracker for tsla senior personal on linkedin or keep track by hand.

Okay. So when you said "profitable", what you really meant was it's haemorrhaging cash but that's okay because an Indian company acquired it and has inf cash in the bank.

How about doing your own research (or catching up on the thread) instead of doing a 10 year old's sophistry of

- Believe uncritically what Musk says and parrot it, then defend it through lowbrow sophistry when mountains of evidence is provided against Musk's statement
- Throw shade and ask for sources on anything that's bearish.

It's all been sourced and discussed before. You're a disingenuous loser who adds absolutely nothing to this thread (unlike you, most other bulls and bears have added at least something of worth to the discussion) so few people are going to bother to source already sourced and extensively previously discussed items for someone who has a closed mind and a cult-like love of Elon such that he parrots his pure lies.

Of course it's false you clown. WTF is wrong with you? The cameras alone can't handle lens flares and thus swerve dangerously in the oncoming sun or when exiting a tunnel. Their resolution is insufficient for distant object recognition/braking-distance 3D mapping at high speed driving. The forward radar is woefully inadequate and cant detect stationary objects (which is why it slams at autopilot slams it at high speed without braking into fire trucks, concrete dividers, trucks crossing the road, etc). The computer unit will no doubt need substantial work to be suitable, and will need to upgraded anyway to work with new algorithms/new hardware like better cameras.

So yes, it's obviously pure lies that Tesla cars ship with all the hardware required for FSD. We even have precedent - Musk has told this same lie before about earlier hardware, which he now says won't work with FSD.

How gullible are you? Less than one second of thought and any familiarity with engineering/software/autonomous driving/Tesla's hardware limitations will tell you that their cars can't FSD on current hardware. Musk needs to tell this lie to justify selling a FSD vaporware package for $5000.