I'm not a Tesla bull. I think this thread is hilarious either way. TS how many Tesla killer did you call so far and how many had true effects on sales. According to you teslas are trashcans on wheel and according to Tesla bulls they are spaceship on wheels. Teslas are really good cars with subpar quality control and shady business practices. Design can be great and production can be bad at the same time.
The taycan is probably a good car but it might not sell well anyway and Tesla might have better designs for people who want that kind of car. Getting a boner from early vague reviews seems a bit premature.

Yeah, you have my views backwards. Teslas are absolutely amazing cars, cool, futuristic, they make ICE feel antiquated. They are pure sex on wheels in terms of handling and enjoyment. Performance electric sports cars are the stone cold nuts. I've always said this. This is also the very reason why Tesla are screwed.

You're repeating what I've said 50 times in this thread.
It's obvious the Taycan, like the iPace, is a disaster for Tesla's monopoly on affordable high performance sports cars.

Saw an iPace in the parking lot at work today in Cambridge, MA. Are those things selling in the US now, or did someone have to have it sent over?

This is the Netherlands with a tax year end frenzy due to an ending tax initiative. I am not sure what you are trying to tell us here? That's not the reality for the whole world. Tesla had a pretty good Q4 for the Model X.

I still haven't seen your link to the Porsche electric racing car. Could you please link it?

Right, that's why they dropped the price 40K euro on a supply constrained item, because sales are going so well. The iPace took them from a monopoly in high performance electric SUVs to a more expensive second best. Of course it hurt their sales. Are you high again? Netherlands is their 2nd/3rd biggest market in Europe depending on month.

We already know your thoughts on iPace sales.
Just lol.
God, you are one the dumbest people that ever lived. I legit don't know what's wrong with your brain but it's something substantial. You don't get to ask for anything after your ridiculous display where you called the 40K euro overnight drop "made up" even after I sourced it and when you could have verified it in two minutes on Google. You're like a conspiracy theorist with what I say even though everything I say is referenced and correct.

Apart from it being freaking obvious that Taycan would be built on electric car racing platforms (why do you think the majors spent many hundreds of millions of dollars competing in Formula E, the worldwide electric racing car championships that have been going on for many years?), here are two articles for you from reputable news sites:

The technology of the Taycan - basically the entire bottom, and 3x Tesla supercharger charging speed - is going to form the basis of a whole group of electric cars including cheaper mass produced ones in the Volkswagen group. Racetrack-proven electric drivetrains and battery packs, then pushed into the Taycan that was punishingly tested, then forming the basis of all their future electric cars.

This is why Tesla are screwed - performance long range electric cars were always going to become the standard/a pure commodity, with only the top and handling etc differentiating. And everything important that's good/sexy/awesome about Tesla has nothing to do with Tesla and everything to do with performance electric drives. They're not like ICE vehicles where there's room for genius in cost/performance profiles in the engine and a complex set of supporting components. Performance in electric drives is almost free once built and tested, so all cars can have it. Similarly for range and cost - once you have 500 miles in an affordable battery pack the utility of an extra 100 miles is almost meaningless. There's no premium for genius in cell technology, unless it's something like what Toyota are doing with solid state or like what VW/Porsche are doing in much higher voltage packs that change 2.5x faster than Tesla's "superchargers" (by the way, they're currently spending billions building out these networks in Europe in a collaboration with major car makers).

But you're such a douchebag you think going from monopoly -> having a cheaper competitor is good for Tesla, so of course you don't understand any of this. Which is why you couldn't wrap your head around 40K euro price drops overnight all over Europe as the competition bit into them.

I love this, you've just spent many words to say that you made the electric car racing stuff up. Porsche has never competed in the Formula E and has not had any active pure electric car racing team (they are entering now).

No, you just have some kind of severe brain damage like you did with the "they didn't really drop prices 40K+ euro! you made it up". There is something seriously wrong with you.
High performance electric drives developed in racing went into the Taycan. The end. All of the rest is your attempt to not look like a total idiot again.
Whoever said the word "pure"? And why is it remotely relevant? Performance electric drives perform the same whether they're in a hybrid or a pure BEV. You think they just sit there doing nothing in a hybrid?

Fwiw I was at the Porsche dealership last week (brag?) and asked about the Taycan (in a ‘do you get a lot of questions about the taycan?’ Way) the sales rep sighed and said “we gets tons but we aren’t taking deposits anymore and it probably won’t be until 2021 before you can get one.


I think that was likely part true but I did get the sense he was annoyed as he wanted to sell a panamera and answering taycan questions I guess doesn’t help that,

Not getting a panamera btw (beat/brag?)

Is this in the US? I think it's like the iPace in that they're targeting Europe first as it makes more sense for electric cars.

TS,

you are a ****ing clown. Obviously, a Porsche is going to be based on a Porsche. How ****ing dense are you? It's just your reading comprehension that sucks again. You were right once on the price drop, you are now again in complete non-sense mode.

still no delivery numbers?

Probably after the close today. Looks like consensus is around 70-75k, I still think 80-85k. But that just sets up Q2 to be awful with no/little Euro backlog to deliver.

Re-initiated my short today (had covered at ~267). If pop on deliver numbers will triple size of short.

Just an update on this: it seems they're partly doing it to get more money out of existing customers as well, for something they've already paid for:

in a strange way, buying good companies with their overpriced stock and ripping off their existing customers are kind of the only smart business decisions made at tesla in years.
if you have some of the most gullible investors and customers in history - use it.

Eh, it's a good short term solution. Notice the total silence on Model Y reservation numbers? (semi reputable sources claim it was under 10K and viewed internally as a flop).

That's directly a result of treating their Model 3 reservation customers like absolute ****.

Over time the stories of their ripoffs and lack of customer service - stemming from the toxic disorganized culture that Musk brings - add up, and eventually kill your brand and demand. For example, Tesla dropped from 3rd on brand rankings among big companies to 42nd in a year.

I feel like the model Y reservation number is a non issue. It is years before the car comes out and most people saw that being on the model 3 reservation list didn't really change much. The tax credit will obviously be long gone by then so why would anyone put down a reservation? I don't think the number of reservations has anything to do with the demand. If the car is well done and comes out on time then it will sell. If the car is a slightly altered model 3 and kind of sucks and comes out late then it won't.

As far as the Taycan and iPace affecting Tesla demand, I feel that could go both ways. On one hand in the short term there are only so many 60k+ electric car buyers, so those sales directly reduce tesla sales. In the medium and long term there are a HUGE number of buyers who are not really looking at electric now. If having those other cars makes a significant % of buyers looks at electric, then the pie could grow by enough that even a smaller piece of the pie for tesla would still be good overall sales.

When I bought my electric car in 2016 I thought that within 2-3 years they would really take off. It has been a lot slower transition than I expected.

Regarding the high end competition, the premium luxury car market is both a cash cow and tiny, relatively speaking. Superior new offerings at lower prices will really hurt the dated S/X which once had a monopoly as the ONLY performance electric car under $100k. The iPace alone did a lot of damage to European sales and profit margins and it was just fairly low volume Model X equivalent. The Taycan will be Model S/Roadster superior by a big margin. Heck I'd take an $80K Taycan over a $250K new model Roadster in 2021 or whenever it comes out.

Model Y reservations not being high is bad for Tesla for a number of reasons. It's a shake to confidence for sure. There are big holders who will take profits if the Model Y was a big PR/reservations flop.

I don't understand why you thought electric cars would really take off. Non-niche purchasing is driven by cost to utility considerations, bounded mostly by cost. Electric cars are going to grow at around 40%/year until they're cheaper than ICE with sufficient range (2021/22), then they explode and never look back. This is the trajectory they've been on since the 1980s barring amazing battery breakthroughs. Substrate cost per unit law, not unlike Moore's laws, has been deciding what will happen with electric cars.

Can we get some fresh conspiracy theories on the Q1 #'s delay: Elon trying to make his 500k tweet look less clownish, not fully baked yet, palace intrigue?

He's too busy doing (clownishly incompetent it appears) customer service? This was 10 minutes ago

lol tooth sayer thinks that is customer service. It's PR!

The joke, Mr Keeed, is it appears that Sheryl Crow's car is bricked because her screen doesn't work. #stuckinaparkinglot.

Musk is either not understanding her problem or mocking her from what I can read there. I mean, I'm not 100% sure but it looks like that to me.

Agree with Keed here. Elon knows his answer is BS, knows the software can never be debugged properly, and knows his followers will eat his answer up. Don't think he is mocking her, just trying to sound exactly the same as all his other BS (cadmium re-entry tiles need double binning, switch mode to auto), it's a sort of casual-yet-deeply-competent image people like Keed lap up.

It has the opposite effect though. News services are picking up a bricked Tesla belonging to Sheryl Crow and a cringingly incompetent customer service response.

I don't get why you'd draw the attention of millions of your followers, and news service, to yet another Tesla bricking.

A Chinese kid I knew from business school basically just messaged me something along the lines of “lol I just paid 120k for a 60k car” with a picture of him next to a mode 3.