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Old 03-18-2019, 09:04 PM   #7526
coordi
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Is Musk being forced out the worst thing that could happen to Tesla? I could see the stock becoming an outlet for his inevitable martyrdom. Its hard to argue that the company wouldn't likely be ran better. Maybe this has been his plan all along...

I don't know if the SEC can handle another slap on the wrist for musk. This is personal.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:07 PM   #7527
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by Mori****a System View Post
She could do something like force him to vacate the CEO position until such time he and Tesla come into compliance or create a policy that comes into compliance with the settlement to the satisfaction of the SEC.

The point of the sanctions should be coercive. If a $40m fine was simply "worth it", perhaps monetary sanctions aren't enough.
Ok, yeah I agree. Temporarily vacating is quite different than stepping down especially since Tesla already has a Chairman in name only.

Good point about monetary sanctions and Musk hanging himself with his own words again because he can't stand being wrong about anything.

So do you get creative or dramatically increase the size of the monetary sanctions?

$20 million probably means a lot more to Elon than it did 5 months ago but the court doesn't know that.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:09 PM   #7528
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Is Musk being forced out the worst thing that could happen to Tesla? I could see the stock becoming an outlet for his inevitable martyrdom. Its hard to argue that the company wouldn't likely be ran better. Maybe this has been his plan all along...

I don't know if the SEC can handle another slap on the wrist for musk. This is personal.
It's the worst thing that could happen to the stock. It's held up mostly by Elon cultists, from small to big money. It'd go sub 200 near instantly and probably end up around $120 with Musk gone from the company (depending partly on if he chose to leave to work on other things at the time or hung around in a non-CEO role).

For the company, hard to say whether it's good or bad, but Musk brings a fair bit to it. He's a fine aesthetic designer, good at putting a nerdy "cool" factor into cars, amazing for PR, and a wizard at getting capital from the largest hedge funds to the man on the street. He has Elizabeth Holmes skill there. She had the turtleneck, low voice and serious makeup, he has the nerdy "aww shucks but hey I'm the cool billionaire innovator" appeal.

He's also a hopelessly incompetent manager and engineer. A car business adult would be wonderful for the company but what's left to salvage? Their most profitable lines were just dropped 40K euro+. That's hard to undo. They needed this prior to the Model 3 so they could hit that out of the park first go and on time.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:13 PM   #7529
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by coordi View Post
Is Musk being forced out the worst thing that could happen to Tesla? I could see the stock becoming an outlet for his inevitable martyrdom. Its hard to argue that the company wouldn't likely be ran better. Maybe this has been his plan all along...

I don't know if the SEC can handle another slap on the wrist for musk. This is personal.
In the immediate short term the stock will crash. The "Musk premium" and the story are dead. It will revert to a normal valuation for a money hemorrhaging manufacturer.

In the long term it would have been a good move even a few months ago but now I think they are dead either way and its too late.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:16 PM   #7530
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Musk wants to be forcibly removed from the company before it goes bankrupt.

He will blame the SEC and start working on his next scam.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:29 PM   #7531
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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SEC reply brief dropped this afternoon and its glorious.

Check tortured, stunning, ridiculous, shifting, unilateral, frivolous, "strains credulity", and "brazen disregard" off on your Bingo cards.
"prophylactic" is one I did not see coming.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:50 PM   #7532
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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FSD recognition seems near impossible imo

Would you mind expanding on this? In case you havenít seen, the idea is that they shuffled around features and now FSD has things that were in AP or would have been in AP, like navigate, + have watered down claims of what will be delivered in the future. Basically just changing what it means to perform on FSD obligations.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:02 AM   #7533
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Musk wants to be forcibly removed from the company before it goes bankrupt.

He will blame the SEC and start working on his next scam.
The scam you are talking about has hundreds of thousands of cars sold and the owners love the product. Customer loyalty is extremely high and the brand is extremely strong.

The echo chamber of the never-right-bears is misguiding you.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:32 AM   #7534
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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[...] the owners love the product.
they better do. investors paid a lot of money for those cars.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:35 AM   #7535
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Spurious is making sense for once. Tesla owners love the cars because they are awesome. Teslas have higher owner satisfaction than any other car. The bear thesis is that they can't raise capital, they're barely profitable or unprofitable, and competition is here.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:36 AM   #7536
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Stock ripping 2% off $263 low on desperado pump by Musk, who appears to have taken over the Tesla account.

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Old 03-19-2019, 11:12 AM   #7537
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

"Hey guys I opened a hedge fund with reduced fees and I have so much interest from clients that I can't process them all - so because of the fact that I can't process them I'm keeping my fees low for another two days - and by the way, here is a link to sign up!"

Also, if you sign up now we can have you up and running immediately with no delay. Because of the backlog obviously.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:47 AM   #7538
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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The scam you are talking about has hundreds of thousands of cars sold and the owners love the product. Customer loyalty is extremely high and the brand is extremely strong.
Ignoring the specifics of Tesla - It's probably easier to build a company that builds a bunch of products that its consumers love by "scamming" investors than it is to do it legitimately.

* Scamming in the sense here of misleading them, creative accounting, misrepresenting progress on products, etc. etc.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:20 PM   #7539
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

No, it is EXTREMELY difficult to achieve product market fit, it's even more difficult to have a loyal customer base that loves your products and endorses it beyond anything necessary.

Your statement in the literal sense can be turned and twisted, but it's nonsense to call TSLA a scam.

Look at how difficult it is for other car companies to sell electric cars, e.g. the GM Bolt.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:37 PM   #7540
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Ignoring the specifics of Tesla - It's probably easier to build a company that builds a bunch of products that its consumers love by "scamming" investors than it is to do it legitimately.

* Scamming in the sense here of misleading them, creative accounting, misrepresenting progress on products, etc. etc.
So youíre saying itís a lot easier to create products people love if you have the ability to raise (excessively) cheap capital?

I thought thatís a truism honestly. But I guess I could construct an argument about accountability forcing innovators to respond better to customer needs.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:40 PM   #7541
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Is it truly a “scam” if the Musk fanboys are happy to purchase whatever slapdash products their leader sells them?
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:44 PM   #7542
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Is it truly a ďscamĒ if the Musk fanboys are happy to purchase whatever slapdash products their leader sells them?


Yeah, I donít actually think scam is the right word (given what we know) for Tesla.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:47 PM   #7543
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by Spurious View Post
No, it is EXTREMELY difficult to achieve product market fit, it's even more difficult to have a loyal customer base that loves your products and endorses it beyond anything necessary.

Your statement in the literal sense can be turned and twisted, but it's nonsense to call TSLA a scam.

Look at how difficult it is for other car companies to sell electric cars, e.g. the GM Bolt.


Iím not sure if you think this is a response to my post, but it isnít. I didnít say it was easy to do what Tesla has done from a product point of view. Just that itís easier for an unethical / scammy company then it is for a legitimate one. The point being that you pointing at their product success as evidence theyíre a legitimate company is silly.
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:26 PM   #7544
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by Shuffle View Post
Musk wants to be forcibly removed from the company before it goes bankrupt.

He will blame the SEC and start working on his next scam.
I do think there is merit to the thesis that he really wants to find a way to blame someone else for Teslaís impending doom
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:30 PM   #7545
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by jvds View Post
Would you mind expanding on this? In case you havenít seen, the idea is that they shuffled around features and now FSD has things that were in AP or would have been in AP, like navigate, + have watered down claims of what will be delivered in the future. Basically just changing what it means to perform on FSD obligations.
I can elaborate but the value of those would need to be considered material relative to FSD, which seems dubious at best


In addition to that, the contract states it is for full self driving. So applying asc 606 you would have to apply value to all the different elements of the contract. Given itís unlikely things like sentry or summon are included as part of that contract, you wouldnít be able to assign any value to them for recognition.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:57 PM   #7546
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
Is it truly a ďscamĒ if the Musk fanboys are happy to purchase whatever slapdash products their leader sells them?
I don't think Tesla is a scam but the answer to your question is an obvious yes.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:31 PM   #7547
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

that attempt at a pump via twitter today seemed desperate.
before the tax benefit was cut 3 months ago demand was through the roof and everything was fine and all of a sudden they can't handle their orders because the prices will go up 3%?

come on...
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:55 PM   #7548
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by formula72 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
Is it truly a “scam” if the Musk fanboys are happy to purchase whatever slapdash products their leader sells them?
I don't think Tesla is a scam but the answer to your question is an obvious yes.
I believe the technical term describing it is "a racket"
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:47 PM   #7549
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Roadster and semi deposits are very likely a pure scam
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:10 PM   #7550
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Roadster and semi deposits are very likely a pure scam
Solar roof, battery swap, starship hopper, and boring tunnel all Elon scams as well.

Fraud is a better word than scam for what Tesla as a whole may well be. Frauds work better with real products otherwise they can't last as long or get as big.
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