Why are you not using the US prices? Have you actually been to the website?

And here's the price cut in black and white. The old price, from the Internet Archive of Tesla's French site:



The new price, from Tesla's current day French site:



That's 142,800 euro to 92,300 euro price drop. Exactly what I said, you ****ing idiot, which you claimed twice I was making up. Most European countries have the same price drop.

In all seriousness, wtf is wrong with you? Were you dropped on your head as a child? I have never seen this level of bizarre ******ation in someone who isn't brain damaged at a young age.

Because in the item you replied to and I claimed was "making up", I was talking about the effect of the iPace which is in European markets:
You claimed twice this was "made up" despite being a verifiable fact.

I get that the facts seriously harm your bull narrative but this brain-damaged level of outright denial of plain facts is something I'd expect on Yahoo stock forums, not 2p2.

Ok, I'll give you that point that you found the price drop over 9 months. Still an absolute outlier. Original quote was "iPace markets" which France with 20 registrations isn't.

Because it's more than iPace countries. It's all of Europe that I've looked at (Germany, France, Netherlands, UK). In Korea and Australia the drops are even bigger due to high taxes.

And it's overnight. The shock of the drops and their impact on the value of the existing cars are literally all over the Tesla forums, Twitter, news. People paid 40K+ euro more literally the day before these drops and they're absolutely livid. Jesus you are ****ing stupid. I laid out the evidence for you and you are still quibbling. What things do you get wrong when the evidence isn't crystal clear if you can't even get it right with objective, verifiable, absolute facts? You have the heuristics of a brain damaged person.

When your brain damaged brain gets around to accepting these facts (you seem to be in the Bargaining stage of Anger....Bargaining....Acceptance), perhaps you can explain how drops of 25+% overnight are good for your bull thesis and prove that Musk wasn't lying about demand.

It's really nice for observers to be able to see the 1)Claim 2)Challenge 3)Proof cycle play out so cleanly.

If this was a fight, the ref would've stopped it.

Is there a part where you say “ya I was wrong saying you made it up”?

The cult, outside the truly deranged, are definitely angry right now on forums/twitter


It is very enjoyable

I'd be livid if I lost $50K in value overnight. You'll be paying off a $140K loan for something now worth $75K used or $92K new. I can't even figure what this has done to leasing companies.

The saddest thing is some of the used car ads. $130K used from days ago still up on the sites when you can now buy it new for $92K. Just painful. Musk wiped off ~$40K in value overnight. Even if you're wealthy that's a lot of money to just lose - and most people aren't mega wealthy.

Also on those screenshots you can see delivery times for 140K euro high end cars have gone from 3 months away last August ("livraison en novembre" = delivery in November on August 6 last year) to one month away ("livraison en mai") despite prices dropping 50K euro/>30%. That's demand death, pure and simple, as if the 50k euro price cut wasn't obvious enough already.

it astonished me that how the narrative has switched on their stores and some of its biggest supporters are "online will be the better model of the future" or "78% of sales were done online" " look , amazon is closing their stores too" . These guys cant seem to grasp that the people are not buying an hdmi cable , and yes a good % bought online, but the market you are going after now, is the non early adopters that might need a test drive and a little coaxing , which goes back to our thesis , this co is going under, demand is not what they expected and they cant raise cash, so elon being elon, is doing everything necessary to keep the music going.

I just can't wrap my head around a price drop like that. Only reason to do it is utter desperation for immediate cash as demand has died, such that you don't mind destroying billions of dollars in future profits and cash flow and hurting your customers and lease partners, so desperate are you for the immediate cash. I think it's no coincidence it happened the day before paying the $900m bond.

of course thats why he does it, if we have learned anything about EM is that he is impulsive.. all his actions have been on impulse for the most part.

March EU eoq push is starting up, #'s look bad now but they might pull some volume out. Twitter should be way ahead of the market here again, setting up a good entry, especially if disaster.

I think the price cuts should stimulate a lot of orders and more importantly a lot of bull**** fodder for the end of quarter letter next month about orders and deliveries soaring and being "supply limited". It's a pull forward of >50% of their 400K reservations. Not sure how to play it.

When the 2-year backlog of $35K demand dies down then it's serious fun. And yeah just like on the recent demand death which the bulls rubbished but which was 100% real and tanked the stock, we'll be way ahead of the news and able to get in with good timing.

I think a few pages back there was a link to a Twitter post and its poster was making a case that Musk isn't behind all these decisions of recent. It's possibly a company that manages a business through crisis.

Whatever they're doing now is possibly, simply put, an optimization of a ****ty situation. Nothing going on right now seems to be at Musk's direction. Or if it is, the ideas originated from someone else and Musk's choices are limited from circumstance created by him and maybe the SEC.

Idk what this is, but I certainly wouldn’t call it an optimization...

I was thinking of that twitter thread as well. What's happening seems along those lines.

Liquidation of all non cash WC is the only explanation, which can be fine but it’s a death sentence long term tho in this case

U think rich people hate losing money l, imagine how they feel seeing non rich people drive the same car as them


They are done imo, I never bought the idea the SEC was doing things behind the scenes to prevent musk from raising capital, but I think it’s pretty likely now

Well consider the facts. SEC Chairman Clayton showed incredible weakness in intervening in the prosecution of Musk fraud (which is righteous and necessary for the basic protection of capital markets). Do you think he doesn't intervene to allow Musk to raise if he needs it to survive? Insider banks are also refusing to lend Musk anything including even against his fortune of SpaceX shares. The cuck is down to mortgaging his five LA houses for $61 million to stay afloat, after blowing through a billion from $4 billion of pledged Tesla stock.

Given these two facts I think it's actually more likely no one will underwrite such a raise as they know the true nature of the books and demand. It's not easy to get billions in raises done, a lot of risk is involved and most companies don't do it once they get large as they're viable and able to borrow instead once they need that much capital.

Test drove iPace, Model S, and i5.

I wanted the i5 and my wife, with definitely total lifetime driving hours under 100, loved the S' aesthetic.

Just throwing this little anecdote out there.

Where was this? I was under the impression BMW doesn't even make an i5. Do you mean to say the i8? And isn't the i8 like 150k, whereas the iPace and Model S are close to half that?

Yeah, i8, the sports car that took obvious design cues from mclaren. Test drove Tesla in NYC and the iPace/i8 in New Jersey.

The model s we test drove was specced to more like 100. Certified used i8 was actually well under 100k and cheaper. Actually bothered me how badly it’s holding value but the car is amazing. I know model S is technically faster but I couldn’t tell and honestly the BMW just felt much more familiar to cars I have owned in the past.

At the end of the day I will probably end up taking my old e55 that I gave to my mom or her bmw hatchback because I just don’t want to be tied down to an electric car but I have to say electric cars are super fun to drive and I am pretty convinced charging infrastructure is all we need. Problem is that infrastructure is going to be super expensive and we need a lot more charging stations than gas stations because it takes so much longer to charge a car than to fill it with gas. Alternatively, a different charging tech that makes it cheap enough to turn every parking lot into a charging station.

That’s why it’s good for Tesla that traditional players are entering the market. Infrastructure build out will accelerate and Tesla still is synonymous with fast EV. Judging by my wife’s reaction, futuristic EV too. Apparently I am just old and emotionally attached to traditional dash board and knobs and dials.

Is Tesla DCFC not proprietary?

Open standards are a key for widespread adoption to take off, but I know very little about the individual equipment.

I test drove the iPace and all the Tesla models a couple weeks ago with a friend. We both liked the iPace due to the electric drive, but then we drove the Model X and it seemed so much better we couldn't believe it. I have no idea how anyone could pick the Jaguar, yet it is clearly stealing some buyers from Tesla. The only things I liked better on the Jag were the suspension and the fact that you can offroad it. We are both middle aged guys. I'd be curious to see the demographics of iPace buyers. Still short Tesla, just a bit less rabid about it.

I'm curious in what ways it was better. Professional reviewers give the edge to the iPace so I'm curious what the "man on the street" is seeing.

Were the cars comparable in specs? iPace is a €75K car at 5 seconds for 0-60 and a tricked out Model X is €145K car (well, two weeks ago it was) with 3 seconds for 0-60 which is getting close to double the acceleration! That's not even close to the same class or experience. I do think at the new €92K for the high performance Model X it becomes the better buy.