What makes you think commercial airline autopilot is at all a reasonable comparison to Tesla autopilot? A commercial autopilot system probably costs 100x more than a full Tesla.

You obviously don't know a ****ing thing about general aviation autopilots, which is actually a reasonable comparison. And GA autopilots still cost more than a Tesla, despite doing about the same thing

is the cost of the AP even relevant to this discussion?

I'm not the one who brought up the comparison or made stupid claims that Tesla autopilot was "comparable" to commercial aviation autopilot. That was a Tesla bull.

To the average person autopilot is something you can set and forget which will warn you when something serious comes up and is safer than a human (Musk made this claim). Which is why you get dickheads like this:
Or the guy who was decapitated while watching Harry Potter because his "autopilot", "collision avoidance" and "automatic braking" were each independently so clownishly incompetent that it didn't notice a giant truck blocking the entire road. Or the pulverized Google engineer who didn't realize that his Tesla was so incompetent that it would follow an unclear lane marking straight into a concrete divider without even slowing.

Clearly Musk has marketed something here that has capabilities far below the impression that is deliberately given to fool people into paying for it ("Fully Self Driving divergence coming in '3 months maybe, 6 months definitely' 2 years ago, anyone?) and to make both drivers and especially investors think the car is magical or advanced in some way it's clearly not.

Why wouldn't the capability relative to cost be relevant for expectation from a system? It's like saying a PC doesn't compare to a government super computer. Of course it doesn't.

Here is a list of features from a 5000$ GA autopilot. Look familiar?

Vizion Features:
Bank Angle Select (if no GPS signal)
Track Select
GPS Nav (Point to point type flight plans)
GPSS (Roll steering commands)
Vertical Speed Select
Altitude Hold
Altitude Select
Altitude Pre-Select
GPSV (LPV Approaches)
Control Wheel Steering
Emergency Level
AEP (Bank Angle Protection Mode)
Roll Servo
Pitch Servo
Install Kit
Wiring Harness

the question is over the viability of the Tesla autopilot. given the (insane) accident data there's a huge burden of proof on tesla bulls to defend "autopilot" . If I present a 10 course molecular gastronomy dish for $50 that ends up poisoning you , it doesn't make your point to claim "but Alinea is ten times more expensive!"

it's been said ad-nauseam in this thread but "autopilot" that works 99.999% of the time (with the occasional truck decapitation) is not an effective autopilot. even Elon admits there's a huge difference between 99.999% and where they need to be.

Because it's called "autopilot".

Tooth, that post was a perfect example of why there's no point talking to you. Those quotes were great and all - but had nothing to do with what you actually said:


So, uh, yes, SenorKeeed genuinely believes what he wrote about planes autopilots, because that's how they work.

But, by all means, feel free to try to shift goal posts or spew more nonsense and insults so that you can come out and claim victory.

All of those are true statements. Warnings will go off like crazy if a plane approaches dangers, unlike Tesla where it happily and reliably slams into stationary objects. As I said:
I never suggested that autopilot will automatically avoid all obstacles, like avoiding other planes or ascending if a pilot flies it toward a mountain. No one actually expects autopilot to do that.

What they do expect is that while on autopilot, it won't slam you into stationary objects with no warning. That was the entire gist of the argument in case you missed it (hint: you did). SenorKeed's statement is absolutely absurd:
Autopilot systems easily let you watch a movie because they have reliable warning system when the pilot needs to take over. No one does because they're paid professionals, but it's doable with no risk. Tesla doesn't have this level of safety - Teslas are guaranteed to slam into stationery objects with zero warning because they can't even see them - and thus is nothing like a plane autopilot.

There's nothing wrong with anything I said. This is just you being salty because I called you out for your idiotic (science denying) view that's ironically a lot like the peak oil we all mock Jiggs for.

I wonder why autopilot in airplanes is decades ahead of autopilot in cars?

Its almost like there is nothing to run into when flying other than the side of a frickn mountain.

This is amazing

Some sort of performance art.

Naming a more advanced cruise control “autopilot” is misleading in the consumer space because most consumers do believe airplane autopilots have magical powers.

That’s all TS had to say. Instead he went into an alternative fact universe where airplane autopilots have been fully autonomous for a long time. If it were that easy, all the air forces in the world now would be exclusively piloted by computers.

It's not. In terms of quality and complexity it's decades ahead of Tesla and years behind the highly advanced systems of Google, GM Cruise, etc.
Completely agree. It was SenorKeed who brought up the comparison. Which is entirely the point. "Autopilot" is something that connotes a system that can fully fly for you while you're cruising, and gives you all kinds of warnings when danger is approaching. Tesla autopilot is merely cruise control with lane keeping/changing. It's not "autopilot". It's low quality driver assist at best.
I didn't even say that much. I implied it. Then SenorKeed went full ****** on a rant about how airline autopilot is just like Tesla autopilot.
Never said anything of the sort. Why is every post of yours a lie? Indeed. You said some really stupid stuff man. You still think "autopilot" is not misleading?

It's only misleading if folks misunderstand the state and function of aircraft autopilot automation like you do. If most folks know as little as you do, then sure, I guess?

I actually agree with you. I am saying there is a reasonable case to be made that “autopilot” creates unrealistic expectations without creating alternative facts.

By decades ahead I meant in real-world usage not in technology.

Obviously my point was that you need far more advanced technology to autonomously operate a vehicle on roadways with complicated rules compared to the wide open skies.

Order page now says 'The wait is almost over'

Seems possible a M3 price offering variant is the news. If so this verifies the bear case and should mark the point of no return for Telsa:

-Admission that demand has collapsed, there are no further levers available

-Cash position so rekt the only option left is to move whatever they can (possibly software limiting existing stock)

At this point the only question is the timing and structure of collapse. Should be determined by how long Elon can hold on and what total desperation finance/fraud moves can be made.

Model S/X pages are down too, so probably the cheap model 3 and new hardware for AP3/Full Self Driving bs. And yeah, it's a cash grab and cheap model 3 is probably at a loss.

lol so Tesla releasing $35,000 M3 would be good news...for Tesla shorts?

Good stuff guys, keep em coming

Everything supports the bear case in your deluded mind. Just like everything validates the bull case in those deluded minds.

According to Tesla's official 10K, they're breakeven at $62K ASP while unsustainably decreasing SG&A YoY despite double the car volume (leading to service hell among other things).

Tesla has no reason to sell the cheaper car while it's supply limited for the more expensive car.

Given these, you think a $35K Model 3 is good for the bull case at this point in time because....?

this

Order page specifically says

"The wait is almost over
Great things are launching at 2pm".

So this is the announcement.

From a trading/hype perspective Elon has played this amazingly well so far:

-SP rockets up from 290s back to 320, on the hint of a possible promise of a change

-Trading range and psychology of the stock is re-inforced. Everyone can keep buying up the dips because it always keeps popping back up

-Actions 'prove' the SEC is unable/unwilling to do anything at all against Elon, short-medium term strong positive effect

-Pump-able stock makes train wreck last ditch convertible refinancing more viable, self re-inforcing good news

SR confirmed. 4th effective price cut in 4 months?