TSLA showing cracks? - Page 173 - Business, Finances and Investing Forum

I don't know what's worse, bulls who think Tesla is fairly valued or actually undervalued or bears buying puts when the price is below 300 right before the rockstar's pitch. Wait for the 370 resistance and buy then.

As for running out of cash, they will just sell shares if nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00b590

Why would they need to earn $10b a year to justify a $50b market cap? That's the dumbest thing you've said in a while.

not quite but auto makers' PE ratios are 5-7

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08-04-2018 , 08:36 AM

#4302

Spurious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chytry

I don't know what's worse, bulls who think Tesla is fairly valued or actually undervalued

It's probably this at the moment. Buying now is leaving money on the table.

The worst is definitely though bears going short, because they think TSLA will go bankrupt or run out of cash. This is by far the dumbest thing to do at a $50bn+ market cap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chytry

not quite but auto makers' PE ratios are 5-7

I didn't bother looking it up, because my comment was obviously relating to something completely different, but this is actually quite funny (if true).

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08-04-2018 , 01:12 PM

#4303

syndr0me

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,681

When asked about the regulatory notice and not being able to raise, i find it odd that elon danced around an answer and the VP of engineering hired 3 months ago spoke up, which elon then confirmed.

Not deepak not elon were first to address. Seems very weird for a very pointed question. I will take it at face value for now, but still want to note it was odd.

Also love the monday morning QBs here! Cucks

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08-04-2018 , 02:04 PM

#4304

MrFeelNothin

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Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 4,457

Quote:

Originally Posted by syndr0me

Elon did confirm though, right? Doesn't that put the SEC speculation to rest? Unless you think he is blatantly lying while under investigation for fraud.

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08-04-2018 , 02:14 PM

#4305

syndr0me

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,681

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFeelNothin

Elon did confirm though, right? Doesn't that put the SEC speculation to rest? Unless you think he is blatantly lying while under investigation for fraud.

He clearly follows tesla fintwit and has to know it is a popular theory as to why they haven’t raised, yet he fumbled around then answered that there isn’t any notice preventing them from raising, like I said I’ll take it at face value as just odd.

And yes I think Elon is capable of blatantly lying

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08-04-2018 , 02:18 PM

#4306

MrFeelNothin

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Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 4,457

Quote:

Originally Posted by syndr0me

By blatant I mean a lie that the SEC would obviously know constitutes a fraudulent misrepresentation without any further investigation needed.

That would be quite bold indeed. What would be the endgame?

Also with the whistleblower and all the media attention on every move Musk makes I am inclined to believe that details of a major SEC investigation would be nearly 100% to leak.

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08-04-2018 , 03:25 PM

#4307

Morishita System

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,391

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFeelNothin

Elon did confirm though, right? Doesn't that put the SEC speculation to rest? Unless you think he is blatantly lying while under investigation for fraud.

No. Elon Musk and crew are scam artists, so you have to parse their words very carefully.

"no such notice (preventing a capital raise) from a regulator" - a Wells notice does not prevent the company from raising. They would have to disclose, and the SEC may flag their shelf registration for review, but it doesn't not stop them from conducting an equity raise by itself.

ITT we have people who can read balance sheets and understand how shelf registrations work vs. people who cannot and don't. This will be an interesting few months to see who has it right.

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08-04-2018 , 05:46 PM

#4308

Spurious

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Who will be right will not be decided in a few months. The bears have a way higher chance of being right in a few months, but they will eventually be wrong.

The last 3 years have been a total disaster for bears. The thread is called "TSLA showing cracks?" and was created more than five years ago. We will know in 5 years who was right.

This SEC investigation stuff is pure nonsense - conspiracy theory at its best. We would have known by now if there is a smoking gun.

Last edited by Spurious; 08-04-2018 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Only the TMZ "leaks" are dumber...

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08-04-2018 , 11:08 PM

#4309

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

The last 3 years have been a total disaster for bears.

that's just garbage. the stock was already at 250$ 3 years ago. even at 350$ now it has underperformed the market.

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08-05-2018 , 10:17 AM

#4310

river_tilt

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,014

^
S&P index at 1 August 2015 = 2040.
Index at 2 August 2018 = 2810.
Return = 38%.

Tesla return over the same period = 40%.

This is obviously a simplified analysis - for example, I suspect the index excludes dividends. But it does indicate that, over a three year period, Tesla hasn't underperformed significantly.

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08-05-2018 , 11:20 AM

#4311

waffle

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,728

Leaving out dividends isn't simplified, it's wrong. Especially when comparing a stock that doesn't pay them against an index that does.

S&P500 Dividends Reinvested 8/5/15 -> 8/5/18 = 43.8% return or 12.87% Annualized

Tesla Dividends Reinvested, but there aren't any 8/5/15 -> 8/5/18 = 30.8% return or 9.36% Annualized

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08-05-2018 , 03:36 PM

#4312

BooLoo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 945

sorry should have been more clear:
i looked at nasdaq, because that's how they themself and most of the bulls view the company (which is stupid, but that's another story).

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08-06-2018 , 10:01 AM

#4313

Spurious

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Pretty sure the bears are not short TSLA, long market in the thesis.

All the bears ITT claim that TSLA should be bankrupt and will be soon. You don't need an index to see that this has been completely wrong.

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08-06-2018 , 11:14 AM

#4314

ASAP17

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5,882

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

I'd agree with this in general, outside of short term... the idea that bears can claim any sort of victory on lagging the market is hilarious. Stock is still outperforming both the Nasdaq & S&P 3 years+, as I've said many times it's just sitting a big range consolidating.

The near term underperformance if anything creates more risk to bears with a big short interest as it approaches the top of the range. It's going straight to $500 if it can clear the highs, don't really care how many times you beat the drum about the fundementals.

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08-06-2018 , 03:51 PM

#4315

syndr0me

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,681

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASAP17

Wait, so if you are a bear you have to be a bear for 3+ years? That seems silly

Quote

08-07-2018 , 12:50 PM

#4316

rwesty

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,743

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776

Elon Musk
‏
@elonmusk

Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured.

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08-07-2018 , 12:56 PM

#4317

dth123451

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Must be about time for an equity raise!

This is blatant market manipulation / securities fraud.

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08-07-2018 , 01:00 PM

#4318

ASAP17

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5,882

Quote:

Originally Posted by dth123451

Must be about time for an equity raise!

This is blatant market manipulation / securities fraud.

How is that? Looks like they have secured funding from Saudi Wealth Fund, what makes it manipulation or fraudulent? The rhetoric is always way too intense in this name from both sides.

Closer to highs, good luck to those naked shorts and those in puts lmao.

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08-07-2018 , 01:01 PM

#4319

SuperSwag

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,801

What does that tweet mean exactly? how does a stock go private?

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08-07-2018 , 01:02 PM

#4320

synth_floyd

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It's either RIP the shorts or RIP Elon Musk for securities fraud.

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08-07-2018 , 01:03 PM

#4321

ASAP17

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5,882

Why don't you guys actually do some basic research before you go spouting fraud? Such an easy go to in this thread when it's far from the case...

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08-07-2018 , 01:04 PM

#4322

mullen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ASAP17

What?

Saudis secured a 2 billion stake in secondary markets. Market cap is currently 60B+ and the stock is at 360. How does that compute to secured funding to take the stock private at 420?

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08-07-2018 , 01:07 PM

#4323

Kelvis

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

Does nobody get the 420 reference?

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08-07-2018 , 01:12 PM

#4324

ASAP17

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 5,882

Quote:

Originally Posted by mullen

What?

Saudis secured a 2 billion stake in secondary markets. Market cap is currently 60B+ and the stock is at 360. How does that compute to secured funding to take the stock private at 420?

I think it's clear he doesn't need to raise money and that's why the stock is jumping. The Saudi funding isn't big enough by itself but no doubt there is a correlation between the tweet and this news breaking earlier today.