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Old 06-28-2018, 02:26 PM   #4001
BooLoo
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

this is just an amazing story.

there's new idiotic stuff happening EVERY SINGLE DAY. like every rational board would've kicked their CEO out the door first thing for any of the stuff that's going on here on a daily basis. but they can't, because first, he's put them there, and second, without him, people will stop throwing their money on this flaming pile of ****.

forget enron, forget aol/time warner, 15 years from now, this is THE business/investment school case for everything you can do wrong.

i had already forgotten that just a few weeks ago they flew a whole factory line across the atlantic. that's millions down the drain because they are just so unbelievably bad at everything. and that was supposed to fix everything. nothing is fixed. this is getting worse and worse.

Last edited by BooLoo; 06-28-2018 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:37 PM   #4002
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Breaking as of 20 minutes ago: Reuters reports that Model 3 lines are falling way short of 5000/week. Multiple workers report lines doing 200 a shift, sometimes 300 when lucky. Besides that, paint shop can't keep up with 3 + S + X. Workers also pulled off S and X lines which have slowed.

Crazy PR dickhead Elon is making every one of his already overworked workers work Saturday (the final day to make it). Probably going to try some desperate micromanaged burst production with bottlenecks pre built so he can go for a hail mary and claim they got a rate of 5000/week (a bit like his 1000/week lie in December).

Last edited by ToothSayer; 06-28-2018 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:11 PM   #4003
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/28/tesl...2500-more.html
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:14 PM   #4004
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Yeah. Lot of anger among people higher in the line that reservations were just opened to all, on a first pay, first served basis.

Desperate cash grab from a business close to bankruptcy with no options left - its last possible mortgage over the last of its factory was signed a couple of weeks ago to keep creditors from taking more drastic action.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:18 PM   #4005
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

An extra non-refundable $2500 to reserve an order that may or may not arrive this year... That's a lot of pressure to put on your loyal customers.
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Old 06-28-2018, 05:52 PM   #4006
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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An extra non-refundable $2500 to reserve an order that may or may not arrive this year
Or ever. Might as well be a donation to Tesla at this point.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:25 PM   #4007
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

TMC forums is an amazing place
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:22 PM   #4008
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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how is that **** even legal
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:19 PM   #4009
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
The video here is just gold. Live manufacturing inside the tent, entirely by hand, paying San Francisco wages. This is after 10 years in business and 10 billion in secondary capital alone and with everything they own mortgaged to get to this point. Tell me this car company has a future.

https://twitter.com/IspyTsla/status/1009134913881190400

Background info:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...M05/180629877/



Tell me this is a business with a future - hastily putting together hand assembly lines in a makeshift building using spare parts because they can't hit even minor production targets 6 months late, are dead broke and have nothing to spend on real capex.


This is truly astonishing. A parody video couldn’t be this good. And Musk claims this is superior to his other assembly lines which cost hundreds of millions.

Anyone that gives this company an additional $2,500 deposit for a Model 3 is legitimately mentally ill. Might as well torch that money with a flamethrower.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:19 PM   #4010
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by solid first post View Post
An extra non-refundable $2500 to reserve an order that may or may not arrive this year... That's a lot of pressure to put on your loyal customers.
Where do you see that it is non-refundable?

Obviously a big risk that they go bankrupt before you get your car but is the deposit explicitly non-refundable?
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:26 PM   #4011
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Where do you see that it is non-refundable?

Obviously a big risk that they go bankrupt before you get your car but is the deposit explicitly non-refundable?
After a certain period of time it is non refundable. Any time before that you can request a full refund, otherwise the money goes toward the price of the car.

Also, if you wanted a base model, you have to wait until they get around to building those, because apparently they're only building fully loaded and semi fully loaded models rn.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:32 PM   #4012
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Wait, did you guys see this **** comes with a carbon fiber spoiler for increased aerodynamics? Well call me captain cuck but who can pass up a carbon fiber spoiler?
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:09 PM   #4013
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Where do you see that it is non-refundable?

Obviously a big risk that they go bankrupt before you get your car but is the deposit explicitly non-refundable?

According to the CNBC article:

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Buyers can cancel their orders within three days for a full refund, the company confirmed, but after that their money is Tesla’s for good.
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:03 AM   #4014
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Meanwhile at BMW. How non-cucks make cars:



A true alien dreadnaught. There is ZERO room for improvement on how the majors do things. Which was why Musk was always an absurdly delusional narcissist to think he could outdo them. There's nothing to outdo until robotics advances in the coming decade, and all the majors will be at the cutting edge of that long before Tesla. Multi trillion dollar global industries can't be disrupted by some clown rocket maker - rockets are child's play compared to making cars at the cutting edge.

Meanwhile at Tesla, after 12 years in business, this is how they're making cars:



When does it dawn on even the Spuriouses of the world that Musk is either a very stupid person, or a shameless liar? If he didn't know that he couldn't improve on the robotics/production efficiency of the majors, he's a very stupid person. There are 50 reasons why it's obvious he can't and I've laid them out for years. If he did know he couldn't, he's a shameless liar. Which is it? There's not third option here.

They must be laughing their asses off at the big carmakers.
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:08 AM   #4015
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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This is truly astonishing. A parody video couldn’t be this good. And Musk claims this is superior to his other assembly lines which cost hundreds of millions.
I think he lies because people believe it, and the fake news uncritically echos it. Musk fans are particularly sad and incredulous people, who badly need a hero. He's a lot like Trump or Jordan Peterson in that way, except he's far less intelligent and mentally stable than both and his supporters are far more deranged and uninformed. You'll see a lot of this kind of thing:



Millions of people are poorly informed and affected by their delusional view of Musk as a can-do-anything world saving Tony Stark type hero pushed by the fake news media and Musk's carefully tended PR efforts. Once a belief like that sticks, all info is filtered through that view (look at Spurious's or heltok's insane take on stuff, read their views on 2018 autonomous driving or Tesla energy or proftability from two years ago), and fake news headlines that feed the confirmation bias.

It's an incredible thing, that results in lots of people thinking that that absurd hastily prepared tent hand manufacturing line that we're looking at is actually world class and an example of Musk's genius and a reason to buy the stock.

The upside? Incredible put/short prices even on the verge bankruptcy and one of the greatest crashes in history as it all comes undone. This stuff is a gift to us; it's like sitting at a poker table with people who think T7s is AA.

Quote:
Anyone that gives this company an additional $2,500 deposit for a Model 3 is legitimately mentally ill. Might as well torch that money with a flamethrower.
People just don't know. Views are formed from media snippets and excited fan commentary. Having a cult following and always pushing an alternative narrative is incredibly powerful. We're seeing that play out right now.
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:31 PM   #4016
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1JR1WX

Claims are that target of 5k a week are reached - at least for one week
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Old 07-01-2018, 02:46 PM   #4017
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Nope, that's not the claim.

Quote:
Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) nearly produced 5,000 Model 3 electric sedans in the last week of its second quarter, with the final car rolling off the assembly line on Sunday morning, several hours after the midnight goal set by Chief Executive Elon Musk, two workers at the factory told Reuters.
Quote:
The 5,000th car finished final quality checks at the Fremont, California factory and was ready to go around 5 a.m. PDT
Basically:

- Pull a bunch of people off Model S & X, temporarily stop sending S & X to the paint shop (which is a bottleneck)
- Prep everything beforehand for the key week burst build that you desperately need to hit
- Run overcapacity and your workers into the ground
- Miss your target anyway - only producing an unsustainable 4100/week in your most desperate burst build efforts

This figure basically confirms everything we've been told by workers - production is around 3000/week (200/shift x 2 twelve hours shifts x 7 days), with occasional bursts to 4000 when lucky/working at a non-sustainable rate AND an extra tent line outside.

It's a disaster. How it will affect the stock depends on how the fake news media reports it.

Last edited by ToothSayer; 07-01-2018 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 07-01-2018, 03:07 PM   #4018
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
- Miss your target anyway - only producing an unsustainable 4100/week in your most desperate burst build efforts
How are you getting 4100? They built 900 cars in five hours this morning?
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Old 07-01-2018, 05:18 PM   #4019
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

ToothSayer you're absolutely pathetic. I have never in my life seen someone put this much effort into whining about something.

If you believe you're right, short the hell out of it and if you think you're right why on earth are you advertising your position?
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Old 07-01-2018, 05:31 PM   #4020
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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ToothSayer you're absolutely pathetic. I have never in my life seen someone put this much effort into whining about something.
Behold, a Musk fanboy.

I get it. You want to believe that he's a hero and not a liar and a fraud and a failure at mass manufacturing, despite the overwhelming objective evidence that he is. Cults behave the same way. So do penny stocks.

I'm providing objective analysis.

He set a target of 5000/week in December 2017. He missed it massively, in fact lied about it.
He moved it out 3 months. Missed it badly
He moved it out another 3 months. Missed it yet again, despite:

- Pulling workers off S & X, an absolutely insane thing to do if you care about long term success and not short term PR
- Forcing his already exhausted workers to work extra hours and weekends
- Hastily building a makeshift line which is the laughing stock of the auto industry, described as "insanity" and "pointless waste of cash" by multiple experienced industry experts

All sacrificing the long term viability of the business to fill the mind of pathetic idiots like you with a PR win, which he didn't even hit despite the extreme and destructive measures he used to try to hit it.

He's a failure and the business isn't far from bankruptcy, just like SolarCity went under. If you don't like that viewpoint, argue against it. Not get salty when someone provides robust analysis.

Quote:
If you believe you're right, short the hell out of it
Thanks for the advice.
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and if you think you're right why on earth are you advertising your position?
This is a stock discussion forum. Advertising what we think is the point of discussion. Do I need to explain to you how stock discussion forums work?
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Old 07-01-2018, 05:41 PM   #4021
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

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Crazy PR dickhead Elon
You're well beyond "stock discussion" here and you seem just furry mad. How come you're so mad?
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:15 PM   #4022
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

I make money on Tesla long and short, so I'm not sure why you think I'm mad. Elon is a gift who's substantially increased my net worth.

I do enjoy calling things what they are, particularly when there are total loser fanboys on the other side. As for the description, he's earned it. Just a tiny fraction of Musk lies and spin:

Describing Model 3 Production:

- Air friction limited robots
- You'll need a strobe light, it'll be moving so fast
- Alien dreadnought
- Machine that builds the machine
- Outmanufacture the majors
- The most advanced manufacturing line ever:



- 5000 Model 3s a week by December 2017

Describing Autopilot:

- AP1 equivalence by December 2016 (didn't arrive until 2018)
- Fully self driving diverging in 3 to 6 months [January 2017, still hasn't arrived]
- Blaming the driver for his horrible autopilot which killed someone

Predicting fake profitability:

- Profitable in 2012
- Profitable in 2013
- Profitable in 2014
- Profitable in 2015
- Profitable in 2016
- Profitable in 2017
- Profitable in 2018

- Picking constant fights with journalists, including smearing truthful reports who later turned out to be telling the truth
- Playing the victim about a tiny amount of negative press

The guy is a crazy PR dickhead. He lives for PR rather than actually running a business competently. He constantly tells lies in order to keep breathless cult fanboys like you hooked and not looking at the evidence, but instead the next shiny thing he puts in front of you. He's nerd-Trump.

He's got you so hooked on his bull**** that when he substantially misses his 6 month late production target despite pulling out every crazy stop (for pure PR purposes while hurting the business to do it), you attack the guy pointing this out, rather than go "gee, he really has a horrible track record of meeting his goals and promises, even when pushed out months or years. Why is that?"
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:20 PM   #4023
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

So you're mad. Ok good luck to you.
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:24 PM   #4024
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

You're the one who seems mad that I'm presenting inconvenient facts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
ToothSayer you're absolutely pathetic. I have never in my life seen someone put this much effort into whining about something.

If you believe you're right, short the hell out of it and if you think you're right why on earth are you advertising your position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
You're well beyond "stock discussion" here and you seem just furry mad. How come you're so mad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
So you're mad. Ok good luck to you.
I'm presenting evidence. If you have something to say that's on topic and isn't about my psychology (who gives **** about me? I'm just some random internet guy with an opinion) then say so.

But you're a loser who's in love with Musk and has to attack anyone who criticizes him rather than have anything reasonable or on topic to say. It goes with the territory with cult hero figures who run PR efforts. The same happens in penny stocks and in various scams.
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:27 PM   #4025
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Re: TSLA showing cracks?

Keep it together dude. I've seen Tesla manufacturing lines that are more put together than you are.
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