If they can be used to incinerate moped muggers then I can see Tesla selling a ton of cars in London soon!

Juk

I never said it should be limited to share price predictions.

I said if TS posts something that is a concrete price prediction (TSLA below $150 in 2 years, etc), then others who disagree should post a concrete one of their own and state why.

NxtWrldChamp literally came in here to quote and mock TS for a prediction he made ~2 years ago not coming to fruition. No predictions of his own...

You can't criticize someone if they don't make any prediction at all and yet swaths of posters are just waiting for TS to say something and be wrong while they effectively say nothing at all.

If you disagree with a thesis and respond with one of your own, then great, because that's the purpose of a forum. If you disagree with a prediction and don't post why and then come back to the discussion when it's wrong and act like the guy who made the prediction has no credibility, well, you may or may not be right, but you also may be less credible yourself. It makes you look petty at best and like a huge vindictive pussy at worst. It seems some posters are oblivious to this and, even worse, don't care.

You seem to be just as obsessed as the rest of us, don't act like he doesn't bring it on himself. Go to a mod if you don't like people calling him on his bs, it's pretty simple.

LEAVE TOOTH SAYER ALONE

Bro I understand exactly why he gets ****ted on so often.

I myself have pointed out that TS has an abrasive and disrespectful attitude in his posts. Any time I've posted it's been in an effort to get other posters to realize they aren't even discussing the topic. They're discussing the poster. I'm just asking people to post better. And explaining to others why they should either post less or not at all.

I don't care if you insult him like he does everyone else (that **** is funny sometimes both towards TS and from him as well), just do it with content to back up what's actually being discussed. Otherwise, you're just wasting space and every readers' time because I have to scroll past that **** to get to the crux of conversation. Like Keeed. If you were to look at every post he's made in this thread, you'd see he doesn't even talk about TSLA in any way, shape, or form. He literally only comes in here to troll ToothSayer. I've made exactly one post directed at him pointing that out but here he is:

I don't have a problem with TS getting criticized. I have criticized him myself.

I have a problem with posters like you coming in to the thread and posting zero content. I've already tried to point this out to you once, but you don't seem to care. You're noise. As such, I know I have to just ignore your posts as they serve no purpose.

The idea that someone's thesis is worthless if they're not betting money on it is very stupid for a variety of reasons.

CNBC announcing Musk just bought even more shares. To me this is very reminiscent of the big bank CEO's buying their shares in 2008 in a final desperate attempt right before the bailouts.

Yep

Also looks probable that it was pre market so likely an attempt to pump on thinner liquidity


They are toast

I love how you spin this.

This is usually a vote of confidence. Why would someone who has committed securities fraud, lies to the public, knows that his company is bankrupt, has a pending SEC investigation, etc. be buying shares with money he hardly has?

'cause penny stock promoters gotta promote before the whole thing collapses in a battery fire.

All of his purchases were premarket, which is easy to confirm by looking at the purchase prices and matching it with the tape. Now why would Musk do that?

I can totally imagine Elon Musk hunched over his computer at 4:30 AM PST, screaming "die shorty!" as he made the purchases while on ambien.

True, I am being a little overdramatic. The banks comparison isn't identical because the banks share prices were collapsing at that time. Just a hunch I have. Sometimes management in struggling companies buy shares after exhausting everything else. Has he routinely bought shares himself in the past? Why now?

I think its pretty obvious what the intention is

I don't know what's going on but it does seem strange to buy shares after this massive rally and right after he announced job cuts

Usually a vote of confidence.

He has been buying quite often in past. The last time before this one was a bit more than a month ago.

I mean, you answered your own question. It's a PR trick. A few million minds who think like yours, a news cycle to keep the stock elevated. Musk is buying his own stock!!! It's a vote of confidence!!! Lot of first level thinkers in the world.

It's zero cost PR. Particularly since he just uses the stock as collateral for loans (Last i checked he was $650 million in the hole with investment banks, with a few billion worth of stock as collateral).

And yeah, penny stock pumpers use this quite often. They have some great man (the visionary CEO, a new investor) put a small amount money into the stock to demonstrate their confidence, and the stock soars.

Found these two articles quite interesting although nothing new
http://mikaelsyding.com/barriers/
http://mikaelsyding.com/tesla2/

Cutting jobs during ramp up, and not raising equity, makes no sense unless they can't raise equity.

I guess I should have been clearer in my post. I just think it's a bit pathetic for someone to fly in quoting a prediction from two years ago, when they never offered anything similar themselves.

Dude stop

800+ from the 2017 k i believe

The difference is that this isn't a penny stock. It's a car company that has product market fit. This thread is called "TSLA showing cracks?" and is five years old. The bear stories are just repetitive. The company has the potential to be a dominating force in the electric cars business.

It is a misconception that established car companies can just switch their entire processes to become a primarily electric car company. Nothing in history suggests that.

If we look at the various elements that need to be changed to move the current operation to the new world.

Production

• The current facilities need to be drastically remodeled and will basically be unusable - either temporarily for ICE production or permanently after the last ICE car was produced.
• Workers need substantial retraining. This isn't something that is done overnight.
• Fitting supply to demand is a very difficult task if you have highly volatile order volume.

People always overlook this aspect and think this is so easily done. I don't think anyone in the car industry actually thinks this is true. The reason why we see announcements for cars in x years from now is not because they are uneconomical, it's because they wouldn't be ready even if they had the orders.

If re-investments in ICE production facilities get stopped, the marginal costs to produce an ICE car will come down as well.

Suppliers
The number of potential suppliers isn't matching the potential demand that they would expect in a roll-out of widespread electric vehicles. This is mainly due to the fact that it is uneconomical for the suppliers to do mass production in advance if car companies are not willing to take the first step.

Also, the vastly less complex design of electric cars reduces the pie and benefits a few large scale suppliers. Today, a lot of suppliers are very specialized and heavily integrated into the OEM's supply chain. To just switch them isn't as easy as just changing contracts. It cost VW 9 figures to change the supplier for small items for a limited number of cars (most of the costs associated to get the suppliers' facilities in the position to take over from the old supplier). Imaging this on a large scale.

Sales & repairs
People have laughed at me before for bringing this up. I am still of the opinion that the sales force will sell ICE cars until hardly anyone buys them anymore. I have two reasons:

1. The sales force is selling what they have experience with. They will not be able to switch unless they are heavily incentivized. In order to get them incentivized, a few things would need to happen:
   • The car companies would need to overweigh future (uncertain) sales and underweigh lucrative current profits. To get this to happen on a large scale is almost impossible. Car companies hardly make any money today, operating in two markets (one of them being only promising) is not going to be the norm.
   • Prices for electric cars need to be attractive. If a car company can sell an ICE car at a substantial profit, because it doesn't have to make re-investments in current ICE production facilities, the prices will naturally come down. It's a vicious cycle that is short-lived but will take down established car companies.
2. Repairs are a substantial part of the profit of car sellers. It's the more lucrative side of the business and it's under threat in an electrified world. Preventing this from happening is going to be there number one goal.

Some of the things might be contradicting each other, but I feel like Zetsche summed it up quite well when he said that "electric cars are good for the environmental balance, but not good for the economic balance sheet." Something that Tesla investors are fine with - at least for the time being.

What, stop? Can you please elaborate a bit more.

It's nothing more than a symbolic purchase.

To quote:

"It’s a drop in the insanely large bucket that is Musk’s stake in Tesla, which is now at 33,737,921 shares worth over $11.5 billion at today’s close."

Is it now symbolic? Is it tactical and deceiving? Is it meaningless?