From what I've seen, TS has made money on the vast majority of his TSLA trades both long and short. He doesn't play long dated options; everything is very short term holds like intraday to within a week. He's extremely good at that.

Since that's not my forte, I'm just long term short and down 8% atm, but it's an eventual zero so I will just wait. Q1 report will be hilarity.

I know some people can't stand it when TS goes into you're an Aspy moron monumental condescension mode, but in all honesty, it seems more like you want him to want the stock to do what you think he wants it to do.

Agree in general but writing puts and holding them seems suicidal to me

If you look at all his recommendations, you'll see that he certainly has not made money. And if you look at his general sentiment at TSLA, I find it hard to claim that he makes money trading TSLA when the stock temporarily doubled its stock price.

Claiming he is doing short-term stuff and what not is obviously bull****. He never posts when his trades should end.

Look at this now, the stock is back at $300 from his call to go long at $260, does he say that he would end his position now or hold on to it? No, he wouldn't. In the case the stock goes further up, he will say that he told you to buy (which is completely contrary to any of his narrative in the past 18 months) and if the stock goes down, he will basically claim perfect execution. Falling for TS's bull**** that he is this star trader is absolutely laughable.

I don't really know what you mean. I preferably like to engage in the business related stuff to TSLA. The reason why I joined the thread is because TS claimed that Apple now throwing money at this would destroy TSLA. It obviously never happened. I thought back then that you could engage with him intellectually. He is just not setup for this (too short of an attention span mostly).

Whenever you see him discussing business and product related subjects, he has either dubious sources or a substantially different understanding of how the world works.

I understand all of this perfectly well, the problem I'm having with your claims is that they always imply perfect execution. "Deep in the green" how? You never post when someone should stop the trade.

You can get a hard on from the few times you were correct on the trade. The fact that TSLA would stay at $300+ was certainly never something you would have believed and would have claimed anyone crazy to do so.

Your references to cults, Enron and religion are fundamentally flawed (each one for different reasons). You want this to be a cult, Enron or a religion but it will not change just because you see it that way.

Here's a recent smattering of tweets from Elon fanbois:

"You are my hero Elon. I am on your side and Tesla's with half of 401k"

"With Tesla, forever!!"

"I bought more Tesla stock on its lowest days. 250 any smart investor would know that they will do good. This like AMZN back when it was at 6$ a share."

"I already bet big on Tesla's success. You always buy a company's stock if the CEO looks smart and does not pursue money as the only goal."

"new technologies, new generations, new morals, new humanity. My bet is on the young people changing the world. It's time to tell right from wrong in real life, not just the movies! Betting on Tesla is betting on progress!"

"The fake news is ridiculous! If media covered Tesla fairly and accurately, the stock would be $500+/share. Model 3 is now at 2,500/wk, lots of solar and battery projects, and nothing but revolutionary products."

"This is sooo easy... a multi trillion Dollar company in the making in about a decade. I have already stated very few people understand this."

"i bet on #Tesla it is definitely more credible & honest than #Goldman and/or other greedy financial #ponzi #zombie institutions who are on fed/government life support since 2008/9"

"Awesome reply Elon, these self proclaimed pundits can never understand the success resulting from a purpose driven mind who will stake its existence to achieve its goal. Keep kicking a@$"

"The car is so monumental and ballsy that production woes are the result of building it, doing something many have not tried, changing the world, so we can breathe & be inspired"

"Love, I have complete confidence in your achieving your vision and goals. I know that everybody does not possess your stamina and tenacity. Mere mortals aren't able to achieve your genius which will, for me, make the world an exciting and adventurous place."

Sure sounds a little cultish to me.

You say things about him that you have no idea are true or not, but the way you word your posts make it look like you wish certain things you think of him are true.

You also overreact to other posts ITT that are negative about TSLA. I've seen you walk back at least one comment a while back.

You also make it sound like you can't be long term bear all the way to $0 on TSLA and still trade it in the short and intermediate term and make money. Whether TS reveals his trading record or not isn't relevant in this case. You're acting like it's not even possible. So you either don't want to believe it's possible, or you have no clue about trading in general.

TSLA definitely has a cult following thanks to Elon Musk. Even if you reasonably believe in the company, you can tell there is an endless supply of morons who bet on TSLA saying things (openly mind you) like I have half my 401k invested in you, Elon!

Isn't that what's called an opinion?

The former is certainly true and the latter I think is normal human behavior. I've probably done that multiple times.

The former also happens because hardly anyone admits to being wrong ITT - I am certainly guilty of it as well.

I already alluded to this. You need to also say when the time frame ends. He does not do that. Someone who is a long-term bear and short-term bull needs to say when this short-term ends. He doesn't do that. You see him claiming that he was correct on his views.

You just need to go back to when this stock was $270 and TS and I both agreed that this would be a got point to short. Of course, the stock then went to $380. He now says that he told people to short at $380, well, his first position never ended. So, by the time he called this a long at $260 is basically the time when he realized a $10 profit (without deducting borrowing fees).

He said he sold puts, and those puts obviously expired. Not very difficult to understand given everything he does is weekly at the longest unless he posts otherwise like RIOT. If that wasn't obvious to you, then TS is right about you not knowing much about investing or trading.

In any case, TSLA is screwed. Whomever is holding long after this became public through PACER has no business whatsoever doing any sort of investing or trading:

https://www.scribd.com/document/376359070/Tesla-Lawsuit

All of the institutional holders of TSLA are going to enjoy reading through that over the weekend.

Holy **** that is damning. Detailed, specific allegations citing high level witnesses that Musk's claims of mass production in 2017, let alone 5000/week by the end of 2017, were completely impossible and knowing, deliberate stock fraud. Basically what I've been saying in this thread from his admissions on the January 2018 conference call...but backed up with mountains of insider evidence.

There's a strong case here. Discovery is going to **** Tesla - the truth will come out. Although it's not even needed given their witnesses. There's a reason high level executives including two high level accounting staff have left. They didn't want to sign off on the fraud.

How do they not win this case? This is blatant stock fraud with multiple witnesses to open and shut cases of fraud.

Yeah - as an institution, how do you not dump when you read this? This is Musk's Valeant & Philidor moment.

Musk is promising profitability by Q3 now, any chance of that happening?

I think it's highly unlikely, although it is possible he pulls some accounting shenanigans to show positive cash flow in Q3.

The bigger problem is that in view of his tweet and failure to file an 8K, if TSLA is not profitable in Q3 then the SEC is going to come down hard unless the SEC literally DGAF.

This lawsuit is unreal, it actually makes what all intelligent people already knew look bullish compared to what was actually going on

Man, please prop up the stock for a short while longer, also TS getting burned on those puts would make me laugh a bit, and I am a big TS fan

Really dumb and assumptive question

Is there a point where a short is forced to cover? Like preventing them from getting long term gain status, I imagine there is

syndr0me,
I've stated many times I trade weekly expiring options. Obviously when the stock rips 16% in two days and vol gets crushed, your ATM sold puts go from $15 to $0.05 and its' all over. Say you sold 10 puts. You use $50 of the $15,000 pure profit you made on the sale to buy them back and close the trade so you're not holding tail risk. I usually cover around 90% profit because I don't like that level of tail risk.

Shorts can be forced to cover by borrows calling back. Basically stock is loaned by someone, and they have the rights to call back what they loaned out. This rarely happens on large and liquid stocks for retail investors for obvious reasons (the brokers would just use some of their holdings to cover), but it does happen on pennies and it's hilarious. Basically, a bankrupt stock can go 600% against you on a pump and dump, and you can be liquid enough to hold until it goes back zero, but the original owner calls back his stock and you have to liquidate for a large loss.

Just one of the many ways in shorts get hilariously ass-****ed by the system.

I get most of that, didn't know ur puts were weeklies tho

You have a severe case of reading comprehension problems. TS claims that his trades were highly profitable. If they were only a week long as his option plays then they weren't super profitable. But you want to believe what you want to believe. You are the only person ITT who still believes that TS actually trades and even if, he isn't profitable.

So, I read through this now. What is there problem? That they've gained 3.2%? This is nonsense and will lead to nothing. People need to get a grip what companies are doing regularly.

So earlier an accountant didn't know what high level accounting departures meant, according to you. Now you think that a patent attorney has a "severe case of reading comprehension problems".

Do you think these are reasonable positions?
You're holding forth when you don't even know how a sold put works. Amazing. If you sold weekly (or even monthly) puts and then it rips 16% higher, you make 100% profit.
A bunch of us from 2p2 post trades in real time in private chat. Morish has followed along on quite a few and got short Tesla for size at $340.
Hard proof of total manufacturing incompetence including detailed specific allegations from 11 witnesses, horrible management skills, and blatant actionable deliberate stock fraud. Spurious: "Where's the problem"?

I present you Exhibit A again:
A Tesla critic is only criticizing Elon because they're "mad the stock hasn't being doing what they want" despite being long last week by selling puts.

A patent attorney criticizing Tesla and talking about what he's seen on my trades has a "severe case of reading comprehension"

An accountant saying that this many high level accounting departures are ominous is "just trying to make Tesla look bad".

A yearly report on the state of autonomous driving that put Tesla last must conspiratorially have been "paid for by the automotive companies", despite the fact that that's not at all how their business works and there is no evidence of that and it has no benefit for the majors and other hard data like disengagements or actual working level 4 autonomous ride hailing in major cities already underway shows exactly the same thing as the report.

A detailed lawsuit with 11 witnesses detailing extreme incompetence and blatant deliberate stock fraud in actionable violation of a number of laws, is nothing and nonsense and not a problem.

The above is called "denial", bro, and yours is at a cult level.

You should be selling options or be in spreads in this name since all of you keep going on about puts, straight directional vol is a terrible r/r. Not cheap to short the stock either... There is too much polarized opinion (my own personal thoughts included).

I appreciate spurious posting compared to other bulls, but I don't know how someone can read this and think they have a solid grasp of the situation

My broker allows me to keep short with no interest as long as I have cash to cover the short and the underlying isn't hard to borrow (which TSLA is not, surprisingly). I'm combining that with selling covered puts for half the position, and so far that has been fairly profitable.

I know he trades because I saw his trade posts IRT in private chat.
If you don't think that selling weeklies can be highly profitable especially for a high vol stock like TSLA, tell me if you know how much you would've gotten if you sold a mere 10 puts at the 255 strike on the Monday morning of that week and let them expire on Friday.

11 people including high level managers are willing to testify that Musk is just spewing BS regarding his forecasts when he knew or should have known that his forecasts were impossible. It puts a cloud over any of his present forecasts, and I imagine he's gonna get killed in Q1 Q&A over this.

There is a very fine line between puffery and material misrepresentations, and if any of these allegations are true then Musk has blown the line away.

If you don't think accusations of knowingly making material misrepresentations with manager testimony to back it up is a big deal, then all I can say is enjoy your hold. Normally, you only see this kind of lawsuit and that level of high level testimony after a stock drops 80+%.

Sounds like a good structure, I'd much rather do this than sell upside calls. The risk to a squeeze is always there if sentiment improves especially if the market were to head back towards highs (hypothetical but again we've talked plenty about how the relative strength the last couple years has been weak here).

There is a small chance the bottom falls out and you have to be careful trading names where vol is this insane as you go down the board. Having said that I think bulls deserve credit for their conviction, even TS would admit this company and Musk know how to raise money. Puts a floor under the stock in the short and medium term while you wait for the underlying to (hopefully) go lower over time and take in that premium.

I think we now have the proof that you don't have a clue what trading options means.

ITT ToothSayer claims that when you sell a put option and the stock goes up by 16%, you make 100% profit. Dude, I know you want to keep your illusion of startraderdom but if you never specify what the strike is (you dodged that question when syndr0me called you out on it), you'll never get credit from me. The one thread in this forum where you have the objective of posting world class stock picks has not been very active if I am informed correctly (haven't checked in a while).

Being long by selling puts is my new favorite thing. Get a grip what being long means. And without specifying the strike, you could actually be partially short.

The accountant bit is funny as well. What the **** does an accountant know about high level departures? One of the departures being someone who got offered a CFO role.

And every consultancy puts out a ****load of research. Most of it is terrible, they make money off it but the real money comes from consulting the companies that are "affected" by the findings in the report.

None of this will win you a lawsuit, none of this is illegal. Contrary to you, I've read the accusation and the mere fact that they list all the past problems and then claim that they've been tricked despite listing all the history of TSLA overpromises is hilarious.

If I haven't overread it, they didn't list the actual number of shares of the people involved and how much they've been financially impaired in absolute terms by the overpromises (remember the stock went up during the period). This alone is on weak legal grounds.

Hear that, Brian? Being long PUTW means you could actually be partially short SPY!