No, I said nothing of the sort. We were talking about prototyping different battery production methods - making batches of prototype batteries and then testing them for reliability. I was pointing out that Toyota are far beyond the research stage in solid state batteries and are testing out and refining reliable production methods and are now testing the output from different production runs. I know you're mentally ill and have trouble distinguishing things (like an automobile and a battery) - everything is just one big abstraction to you - but please try.

Let's say all of this was true, how does this differ from GM killing 124 people? How does this differ from all the majors manipulating their Diesel engines? How much difference does the accounting practice make in the future of the company?

In the near future, when every manufacturer is selling electric cars, what will be the incentive to buy from Tesla?

What is the "moat" for other manufacturers who will be selling electric cars in the near future?

The first of possibly many lawsuits on Elon stock fraud.....


I hate to say TS called it......

https://globenewswire.com/news-relea...Tesla-Inc.html

Massive manufacturing and sales infrastructure?

The brand.

Given the scale operations it seems inevitable that costs eventually converge with all the major players and what's left is that je ne ces quoi that lets them charge an extra few thousand dollars per unit for a distinctive front grill or those sexy, sleek lines that let middle aged slobs feel like there's at least a small chance they're going to get laid when they roll out to the local starbucks to ogle the baristas.


Also, and I'll admit being completely clueless wrt the tech but it seems to me that a lot of their patents have to do with charging technology which is a whole different set of potential revenue streams.

What are the false misrepresentations they're referring to?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_Ru...t_and_Reliance

It seems like it would have to correspond with him purchasing or selling stock in the company to violate the aspect of the code.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/insider-trades?page=6

These seem to be the only significant transactions in that time frame. What happened in May 2016?

edit: ahh, there it is... https://jalopnik.com/tesla-driver-in...nin-1796226021

Looks like he exercised his option to sell a good chunk following the crash. Doesn't seem like it would relate to the case.

Supercharger network.

So, you got absolutely no argument?

What infrastructure are you referring to? The one that has GM selling less cars this year for a way lower price than Tesla?

How does the current ICE manufacturing infrastructure help the majors change to EV? How big do you think the difference is between the current production lines and necessary EV production lines?

What are you smoking?

GM has sold roughly 14'000 Bolts this year. You are substance less.

doesn't GM make cars that aren't electric though?

Of course they do. This is the entire point. They make their money from something else at the moment. They don't have the infrastructure for building EVs. The sales network is irrelevant as well if they don't make the switch. Their so called superior Sales network is absolute bull****. It's a negative and if people actually think it's a positive they have never worked a day in their life in a real company.

Unless you make a radical switch, nothing will happen. The existing sales force only knows how to sell ICE cars. A good salesperson will not be able to make this switch in his head because he probably won't be passionate about EVs as much as he is about ICEs.

The manufacturing infrastructure has to be a joke as well. This is literally one of the biggest things hindering incumbents from making the switch. You cannot effort to have a dual infrastructure.

Anyone who believes that the current top 10 of car manufacturers will still be the top 10 for EVs in the future is insane.

I mean this is basic change management. Betting against Tesla because you think the current incumbents will surpass Tesla is a really stupid line of thought. Or to say it in trading terms: Going short Tesla and long Top 10 current car manufacturers index is going to be a losing trade.

Can't tell if this is trolling

It's not and you'll see how this will play out in the next 3-5 years.

The probleem with the sales network is that they currently get a lot of their margin from maintenance services. There is much less of that involved with EV cars. So the incentive to push EV cars isn’t there yet, and that will hold back the transition for ICE car manufacturers.

Aside from the batteries (which most of them outsource), what novel features do they have that would require a significant investment in machinery or training?

Do you have any specific reason to believe that their manufacturing capabilities were the bottleneck for sales?

He was talking about the other major manufacturers - not tesla.

He's saying they won't be sufficiently incentivized to and/or won't have the capacity to keep up with demand for EVs over the next 5-10 years.

I'm on your side of the aisle wrt Tesla, but the above is completely ridiculous. Car salesmen are just that: salesmen. They will sell whatever they need to. 95% of them are selling the finish package, and 95% of buyers don't give a **** about the engine.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

The post is great on so many levels

He talks about the passion of car salesman for ICE engines and isn't being sarcastic


It's truly amazing

So a trillion+ in deployed capital, already producing 10x the EVs of Tesla, lack the infrastructure for building EVs? That's a curious view.

Renault-Nissan, who make more EVs than Tesla, and at a profit, "don't have infrastructure for building EVs".

Do you take drugs, Spurious? Were you dropped on your head as a child?

This is high comedy. Agree with juan that you must be trolling. Sales people are cynical manipulators of human emotions. Few of them are passionate.
What?
So $100 billion or so each in deployed capital, 80+% of which involves building the same components as used in EVs, is just going to wither and die, because it's too hard to make a battery pack and an electric motor?

The current encumbents already surpass Tesla. They make a million EVs a year.
Tesla is already priced higher than a mature car company that sells 50x the number of cars, profitably.

Tesla have yet to produce a car that doesn't' hemorrhage vast amounts of money. They're yet to produce a car that isn't a year over schedule. They're about to enter a period where 20+ car makers have a $7500 price advantage, on top of an existing price advantage from large economies of scale, as well as the ability to subsidize further to gain market share.

These weren't an issue while they had a monopoly, but the money and size is in the low end, and Tesla with their competency levels will get crushed on the low end by more efficient, more reliable, more outsourced, far more capitalized companies.

They had a shot if they got there first. But EVs are now approaching a cost level where they're worth making for the majors. By 2022, cost parity will be reached. What do you think happens then? Musk will only just be bumbling his way through a production run of Model Y, while the majors have dozens of EVs in all shapes, sizes, prices, ranges, hitting the market hard.

He had a shot if he wasn't a clown. Turns out he was - Musk has made lots of dumb decisions over the last four years and proven himself a low end, pretty incompetent car maker. Musk would make an excellent CCO (he's a genius at PR), but he lacks the brains to be a car company CEO.

I reiterate my call for a Tesla bull who isn't demonstrably insane. There must be some of you.

https://www.truedelta.com/car-reliab...=2014&max=2017