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S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month

12-01-2018 , 11:03 PM
12-02-2018 , 09:08 AM
Does this mean I should stop contributing to my retirement account?

Ack Shawn, where are you putting your $?
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-02-2018 , 12:06 PM
Quote:
For the same reason 1987, 1998, 2010, and 2011 crashed.
okay, what was that reason?
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-02-2018 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
Does this mean I should stop contributing to my retirement account?

Ack Shawn, where are you putting your $?
As a general rule, never stop contributing to tax sheltered retirement vehicles until it's time to retire; however, I would seriously examine your split if you're a traditional stock & bond investor.

P/S is usually a crap indicator especially at the individual stock level, but it is a good bubble indicator, and we have matched to blown past the 90s bubble.

Even the GoGo 60s weren't as bad as today.

I do a modified Black Swan strategy, so most of my money at time 0 is sitting in short term Treasuries until something hits. For now, all of my new play chips are going into short dated OTM VIX calls.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-02-2018 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble
okay, what was that reason?
I can't give that one away exactly since I haven't seen anyone else put it together, but I'll give some hints on how to find it.

Someone has created a stock market mania/panic indicator that measures bubble size and the expected crash depth, but that was not their explicit intention.

This has traditionally been the ultimate cause of the end of these between recession crashes, but it doesn't explain 2010 and 2011:

The true explicit cause for the start of the crash phase is 100% economic and has a 100% success rate, and it goes back to the 1920 crash at least.

That mania indicator suggests a 1987 sized crash or worse, and you can see it in the crash shapes of 1929, 1987, the false start earlier this year, and now: a one month decline from the top of about 10%, about a 50% retracement, meandering downwards, then a soul sucking crash over a few days. All we're waiting on now is the final leg of the crash unless the true economic cause reverses course hard.

Though this is 100% economic, the phenomenon shows up in simpler technical indicators like Eliades's "Sign of the Bear". https://justsignals.blogspot.com/201...n-of-bear.html His timing is less precise than the economic cause which finally fired again recently. All the stars have to be in alignment for the crash phase to begin, and we're pretty much there.

In terms of the economics, which are everything to this type of crash, they're all firing hard. And now, the Fed is nuking housing, autos, energy, semis, and capital goods. The only thing, and I mean the only thing, that's holding up the market is residual mania. Trump's tariffs and Iranian oil sanctions were the cause for the delay from early this year to now by holding up manufacturing, energy, and energy associated industries as everything else went to hell, but he's blinked hard on those, so we may start hearing about even further supplier orders being cut tomorrow in addition to what's been coming out of hardware tech like the semis.

So we have a Fed tightening cycle coming to an end which is smashing everyone across the globe; another major Chinese downturn like 2015-2016 that has nothing to do with tariffs and should persist for another year at least; and now Trump going from jerking the economy upwards with tariffs and Iranian sanctions to pulling it back down hard by totally caving on Iran and probably halting his rescue of US labor participation. There is nothing good on the horizon, and the mania persisting will only hurt the economy more.

The economy always wins.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-02-2018 , 01:19 PM
These threads are never productive and seldom right, curious why you joined last month and decided to post this? I don't see anything to your argument I haven't heard over the past few years.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-02-2018 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP17
These threads are never productive and seldom right, curious why you joined last month and decided to post this? I don't see anything to your argument I haven't heard over the past few years.
I joined last month because I found out sites were allowing US players again. I had been more or less out of poker since Black Friday. Now that I'm in, I heard about all the new nitdom in theory and wanted to take a look here since this was the place for FLH before I was quitted online.

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, you should ask yourself why an obscure poker site even has a Business, Finance, and Investing forum at all. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean we're not all out to get you.

You should stretch your extrapolations back just a little further. Besides, you've never heard arguments precisely like mine.

For now, I'm having a good time on this site, so I'm spreading the love. It makes no difference to me if you believe or how you trade.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-02-2018 , 08:22 PM
zzzzzzzzz

global slowdown is great for the USA. it keeps demand for commodities low so US can get cheap inputs. it also means a strong dollar and again cheap inputs. this means low inflation will continue, fed should read the tea leaves and pause rate hikes, they just arent needed. pause in rate hikes leaves consumers fairly healthy...delinquency rates on mortgages and credit card debt are very low and will stay that way if rates dont go up.

most recessions occur from multiple economies getting hot at once. right now USA is hot and everyone else cold is fantastic, I doubt there will be recession for a few years with how this is playing out. AS for China slowdown..that was the same whining people made in 2015. there are a decent number of people out there that think it is bad for the US so the market is soft just like back then...but it is not bad. if China is growing too fast they chew up resources and commodities go through the roof = unavoidable inflation.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ack Shawn
For the same reason 1987, 1998, 2010, and 2011 crashed.
The S&P 500 finished positive for the year in 1987, 1998, and 2010 (going by opening price, opening trading day of the year - to closing price, last trading day of the year.)

And in 2011 it closed 2 hundredths of a point lower than the opening price on opening day.

Some crash.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori****a System
Nope, I agree with TS. Shorty loses and we rip going into January barring a sell the news event on Monday.

All the economic indicators mean **** now, because everyone and their grandma was long ES calls going into the weekend betting on the trade result, which turned out to be far more bullish than anticipated. So the mms are gonna get their face kicked in and are now forced to scramble to close out, which is probably good enough for ATH SPY by end of year.

Probably should’ve listened to my own advice about how fading Trump is always the ultimate nut low. GGs president Trump, I lose and will cover on Monday, though I refuse to surrender the TSLA and NFLX short.
Never mind; this is anemic to all hell.
Guess it is time to fade Trump after all. Go 1900!
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori****a System
Never mind; this is anemic to all hell.
Guess it is time to fade Trump after all. Go 1900!
S&P had its best week in 7 years last week, let's not make too much of managers not wanting to buy up another 2% today lol. 2800 is a pretty logical pause point if technicals are your sort of thing.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 12:52 PM
Seeing Shuffle back in the mix on BFI definitely makes me more bullish/less bearish, solid contrarian indicator.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori****a System
Never mind; this is anemic to all hell.
Guess it is time to fade Trump after all. Go 1900!
Now Trump's cutting defense too: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/03/trum...ing-crazy.html

Despite prices plunging which mostly only happens when manufacturing in general is going down, national manufacturing reports are hanging in there: But that report doesn't take into account all the lost business expectations due to Trump blinking on tariffs.

I see no source of sentiment anymore. Manufacturing and, to a much lesser extent, defense were the only parts of the economy not turning down. Gone now.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle
You're more than welcome to take the other side. Want to make a side bet?
Side bet on what exactly? That you've made these calls for years and seem to show up when it's time to buy? You say OP is over zealous yet you put a 70% confidence on recession/OP target by the end of 2019? Don't see a lot of difference in the calls except that they both are likely to be wrong.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 01:13 PM
70% confidence of OP target (or close) by the end of 2019, don't think that's a 20% bear market unless my basic math is off... Seems like the odds are right there from you lol. You know what they say about broken clocks...
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 01:39 PM
How about no? I'm going off of what you said lmao, I want the confidence you just came here to tell everyone like you do so often in these mini bear markets. So I guess those numbers are meaningless?
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 01:56 PM
Shorts are gonna get killed.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 03:42 PM
I haven't read this thread but I think at this point this thread's idea is dead.

Yeah, sure its still "possible." But it's probability has to be pretty near zero.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-03-2018 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rand
I haven't read this thread but I think at this point this thread's idea is dead.
His prediction was made just 3 days ago. I would say it's still a valid POV, but just wrong.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-04-2018 , 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
His prediction was made just 3 days ago. I would say it's still a valid POV, but just wrong.
What does that even mean? His only shot was Trump shooting Xi in the face.

If it said 2600, fine still valid but not too likely. 19****inghundred? I dont think so. That is 900 SnP points away.

30 pts everyday including weekends...

A 10% day is 300 pts... Thats pretty crazy...
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-04-2018 , 10:40 AM
Discretionary spending decline confirmed: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s?srnd=premium

All that's left are announcements of a sudden crash in US manufacturing. Philly and Dallas are already heading down pretty hard.

Everything else is already going down.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-04-2018 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ack Shawn
Discretionary spending decline confirmed: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s?srnd=premium
I was expecting a link with some consumer discretionary numbers, not an iPhone article. iPhone has been an over-expensive zero-growth story for a long time, as competitors offer far cheaper increasingly superior models. Now they made it even more expensive and they're possibly not selling as well. You're claiming this "confirms" that discretionary spending is in decline? You're either incompetent or crazy.

Quote:
All that's left are announcements of a sudden crash in US manufacturing. Philly and Dallas are already heading down pretty hard.

Everything else is already going down.
You're not gonna get your 1900, sorry.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-04-2018 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
I was expecting a link with some consumer discretionary numbers, not an iPhone article. iPhone has been an over-expensive zero-growth story for a long time, as competitors offer far cheaper increasingly superior models. Now they made it even more expensive and they're possibly not selling as well. You're claiming this "confirms" that discretionary spending is in decline? You're either incompetent or crazy.
That wasn't the conventional wisdom just two months ago.

Still, this is the same thing that happened in 2015-2016. That before your time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
You're not gonna get your 1900, sorry.
Certainty is a dangerous thing.

Are you all in long and unhedged?
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-04-2018 , 01:03 PM
I generally tend bearish/short.

And no, the premium iPhone has never been this expensive. It's been trending up ever since 2016. You now pay $1449 for the top end flagship model now. Their best phone has gone from costing the average weekly pay to 2x the average weekly pay in three years. That's a huge jump.

You can't read anything at all about consumer discretionary trends from rumors about iPhone sales.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote
12-04-2018 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
I generally tend bearish/short.
Brutal way to make some shekels. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=mj0O If your heroes aren't Chanos and Bass or maybe Greenblatt, I think we're done here.

And if FANG isn't your go to short, it's time to consider another strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
And no, the premium iPhone has never been this expensive. It's been trending up ever since 2016. You now pay $1449 for the top end flagship model now. Their best phone has gone from costing the average weekly pay to 2x the average weekly pay in three years. That's a huge jump.

You can't read anything at all about consumer discretionary trends from rumors about iPhone sales.
It was never expensive at it ever was, but consumers bowed out in the 2015-2016 China crash then all the same. Isn't demand elasticity fun to watch in action? Theory would suggest they can now kiss unit growth goodbye. Maybe that's why they've elected not to break them out anymore. Just trust them. They care about you. Really.

I can read everything into it. Discretionary spending is dominated by those with discretionary income. Apple's herd of customers may buy less units, but they'll spend what they've always spent adjusted for income growth until they can't and typify your garden variety NPC. Now, they can't. If they can't, no one else can.
S&P should crash to 1900 or so within the next month Quote

      
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