Hello 2+2 community,

Below is a excerpt from an email that I sent to a friend of mine that played poker professionally for some time and made enough to invest in other lucrative business ventures.

"As of now I found out that I am going to be a father and unfortunately right now it is a disastrous situation with the mother.

I am looking to return to poker and was wondering if you had any ideas about protecting my winnings in the future, not because I do not want to pay adequate child support, but to protect my lively hood. As you know poker, especially tournament poker can be a beast when it comes to the variance and inevitable downswings. I'm worried about giving winnings away that should be going back into the bankroll so that I am sufficiently rolled while moving up in stakes.

Would starting and SCORP or LLC help, and then I could pay myself a monthly salary and use that income for child support?

If you have any ideas, please let me know.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from, I do want to pay adequate child support but will not be able to give a large amount of $$$ away to the mother, my bankroll being threatened and left with higher risk of ruin.

Thank you,"


I would love to hear from other PRO's that may be in a similar position. I hope you guys can hear my heart on this, and not see this as me wanting to bail on my responsibilities. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Also I understand that my screen name is ironic, please know it's just a coincidence lol.

Thank you and GL.

Get a lawyer. He'll pay guidelines but having a court decide what his actual earnings are given their volatile nature is open to debate. Pretty sure arguing a higher risk of ruin will not impress a judge.

I never said it would... but any other business owner has protection and has the ability to differentiate between his salary/bonuses and the profits and earnings his or her business makes.

This isn't necessarily true. Retained earnings in a corporation are reflected in the price per share of stock (literally if there's only one shareholder). Individuals own stock. So, certain lawsuits might attach themselves not just to reported earnings and bonuses but also to the value of stock owned by the individual.
I'm not sure if this applies here, but you can't just assume that an S corp. or any other type of legal entity will protect your friend.
Corporate veils are routinely pierced in the manner I described ( if not other manners.)
Your friend needs to chat with a lawyer.

If a girl has 100% of the say in whether an abortion happens, against the strong objections of the father, she has way more than 50% of the moral and economic responsibility for the child should she not get one. You signed up a for a **** contract, not a child for life. So I'm all on board with you avoiding your responsibilities if that is indeed the case.

The answer is to simply hide your money. Declare an amount you feel comfortable with that results in an appropriate child support amount.

If you're not willing to do this then you need a lawyer's advice on how to structure this. If it was as easy as creating a corporation to put your salary or winnings in, everyone would do it to avoid child support.

Other advice:

- No dick in crazy
- Your pecker is an evil creature that wants to conspire with the state to steal your money. Don't let it.

Hopefully you are being facetious about hiding money, pretty sure you are. I am just getting better acquainted with the TS schtick.

Yeah this can get really ****ty really quick... Obviously poker players have a bankroll for a reason and live of a much smaller portion of there winnings (in theory) and I want to protect my roll and not be shelling out large amounts of it from tournament winnings to the mother when they should be going back into the roll.

I'm sure I could figure something out just don't know how to do this myself, thus getting an accountant on board in conjunction with a family lawyer. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

There is actually a possibility that the child may not be mine, hopefully I one outed her uterus. This is my "ONE TIME BABY..."

See you on Maury! *weeps*

You are right, I'm not saying an SCORP or LLC is a silver bullet, however I spoke with a family lawyer about this yesterday and basically he said when it comes to child support the judge overseeing your case will have some discretion. So in this case its best to "play ball" and look as respectable as possible, and having an LLC or SCORP would help with that. Even if this gal wasn't pregnant, I was planning on going this route regardless due to wanting to be compliant with the IRS, but my career wasn't quite there yet, I was still working odd jobs here and there and playing poker online and live when I lived in Vegas "on the side."

The whole child support things just another layer of WTF...



The good news is, either way I'm sure things will work themselves out somehow, just gotta trudge through a lotta dump...

I'll be back out in Vegas next month.

No **** but you have a child now. The money should be going toward the kid. You're not going to want your child growing with the understanding that his father is a degenerate POS and that his mother was the only one man enough to raise him.

You're assuming that the money being paid to the mother (beyond necessities) is going to be going to the child. That's a big assumption imo. The more "out there" the mother, the bigger the assumption.

You shouldn't have to turn over 401K profit or business trading capital to child support, why should he turn over the highs of his runs but not get a cent back on the lows? That's a path to ruin. What's more (depends on state I guess), it's not adjusted weekly either. If he has a big year, for how long is he on the hook to pay the big-year-calculated child support?

The whole thing sucks and OP is doing nothing wrong if what he's saying is genuine. The support calculations are based on wage earners.

dog, you just missed the boat so hard... smfh...

so i should be giving the mother $9k a month? sounds like a great deal for the mother, seems enabling to me, getting her nails did everyday with a nice massage session with the gal friends while i'm out putting my nuts on the table getting wrecked by a downswing.

maybe you should step in a be the father, white knight much?

Every pro should be paying themselves a modest monthly salary from their roll, lets say I pay myself $4k a month from the roll, then i should be paying child % from that 4k salary.

I'm a degenerate pos? it's sad how ignorant you are. I get that poker comes with a stigma, but seriously? maybe i should just go day trade or something...

I went with the acrid criticism approach to see if you'd unveil something. I don't know you and it was a blanket statement.

It ain't going to be tough, in the situation you explained, to avoid crippling child support payments by taking a few simple steps if that's the route you want to take.

Your child isn't going to think that you're a degenerate because you play poker for a living. He/she would probably think his daddy was pretty darn cool. Neglect is something different.

If the situation with the lady is truly an irreparable disaster then do what you need to do - but it could surprisingly be +EV (headache + financially) in working towards a better footing leading up to your first child.

better footing in what regard? as in which career path I choose to ascribe myself too? if so then you do have a point there. However I will continue to keep an open mind and gauge that accordingly as time progresses.

Children are easily preventable by both parties. If you knocked a chick up, save her poking holes in the condom or something like that, it's on you OP.


This is not the answer. Getting caught doing this can **** your life up even more than it is now. Trust me, unless you have 100% of your bankroll in cash, the government will find out. Is a court situation avoidable? Can you reason with this woman and get her to take a set amount of money every month without going the legal route? Lawyer fees could potentially sink your ass, so this is the best option, if possible.

Consult with Maury before the lawyer obviously.

Tbh if the woman is as nuts as she seems like she’s have to be to keep the child of an unwilling and unemployed father I might just try to get custody early on (depends a lot on your life situation obviously). You might also want to play nice / play it off like Youre willing to step up to the plate to make sure she isn’t doing anything destructive (is eating healthy during pregnancy etc) and all the while gather evidence of her insanity for later use.

Tough spot to be in all around... The laws really are quite ****ed up and almost encourage this kind of baby tarping unfortunately.

the laws are enabling and are actually counter productive to her properly confronting me on the matter. should she confront me about it, she would see me as a willing individual and not an enemy. its a shame that in this case the legal system is hindering the possibility of a budding nuclear family and possibly binding the gal to her possible fleeting negative disposition and not allowing her to recant.

this honestly grieves me...

What's your status with her? Are you on good terms? Can you arrange a private agreement with her? If you want to live up to your responsibilities and keep your money/career, then going through the legal system is just about the worst thing you can do. You do not want the government involved in your life in any way, if you can help it.

DoOrDoNot,

I’ll preface this reply with this. My intention for this post was to get some pointers on what to pursue in regard to protecting my future winnings (LLC SCORP things of that nature), and to throw out thread to dialogue with other pros that have may tread through similar waters. My hope was to save myself from revealing the details of how crappy this situation has gotten. So please understand why I withheld this information initially. I also wanted to save myself from the jeers that I have already gotten from this post, but here goes.

Back on Christmas Eve my girlfriend told me that she was pregnant, broke up with me and promptly ghosted me. I pursued her via text message and phone calls to no avail to discuss the pregnancy options and the times she was willing to speak with me she was very nasty and adamantly told me she didn’t want me apart of the pregnancy or present for the birth. She told me she wanted to do this on her own (she is 20 and I am 23.) Despite one text message after the initial breakup I was respectful did my best to reconcile the situation enough be respectable co-parents.
After continually hitting a wall with the gal, I dropped by her grandmothers to speak with her grandmother about the situation. Upon arrival I was well received by the grandmother only to find out that she had no idea gf was pregnant or that we broke up, about 3 weeks had past since we broke up. So I unfortunately was the one to break the news to the grandmother and this angered my ex greatly. I also stopped by her and her mothers house to speak with them both and was told to leave, so I left. About a week later I received a phone call from a sheriff in my county and was subpoenaed to appear in court because my ex filed for a restraining order. I can assure you I didn’t deserve this.
The judge granted a temporary restraining order that was due to be over a month after the baby is due to be born (late August early September of this year) obviously I was extremely upset with this. I wouldn't have a say in anything and always wanted to name my first born. I felt the weight of my own broken childhood in that court room. The judge didn’t even listen to what I had to say, he just granted it. My ex in court just said, “I just need, um a break,” and boom it was granted. I have witness, my assistant pastor from my church came with me to the hearing. I may consider scanning the restraining order paper work and redacting all identifying information just to give ya’ll some gaffs.
It gets worse. About two weeks after getting the restraining order granted, I had about 3 drinks, was feeling extremely depressed about the situation and sent my ex an email. She reported the email. I received another phone call from a sheriff about 3 days later and was asked if I sent her an email. I owned up to it and was told I was under arrest. I turned myself in that night, was arrested, jailed, and let out on a PR bond the next day. After 3 months of court dates and lawyer fees, I got put on 1-year probation with the option to terminate early for compliance, with alcohol classes and weekly urine analysis. I was charge with violation of a civil protection order…
I’ll be happy to address whatever question any of you have about this situation.
Again, if anyone has any ideas on how to can move forward with my respectable poker career it would be must appreciated. Please spare me from the jeers and the need to call my character into question, either due to my newfound legal problems, or my decision to play poker despite all of this.

The government is heavily involved...


Thank you… *cries*

My childhood dream was to be a good husband and father and not let my children endure the same brokenness and neglect my biological family allowed and perpetuated. Redemption doesn't always look the way we imagine it.

Ok well I am thoroughly entertained.

The good news is that the odds that the baby is yours just dropped a little. A possible scenario is that she was having unprotected sex with someone else and doesn't want to own up to it/wants you on the hook for child support.

It's a travesty that you can be on the hook for something over which you have no say and no part. A sane legal system would force her to mediation if she wants child support after the baby is born.

I would pay money to see videos of this incident. I'm guessing it went down like this:

Her: "I'm pregnant"
You: "Kill it!!!"
Her: "omfg you're horrible gtfo"
You (texts and phone calls for weeks): "Can we talk about killing it?"

How close am I to the mark?

jfc at that story, basically my worst nightmare.

Get a paternity test before you dish out any child support. Even if it costs $1000 and there is a 1% chance you arn't the father, its +EV.

You also might be better off working whatever full time job you can and pay support based on that. Poker money on the side can be all cash/bitcoin and yours to keep.

There isn't any good option out there that doesn't involve hiding money or running off to SE asia.

Why would she just up and break up with you after getting pregnant? Assuming you're a good guy and treated her right, this behavior doesn't make sense.

Is it possible she cheated on you and used the pregnancy to pretend to be angry at you and get away with it, never to be questioned?

I'd ask her, directly, if she cheated on you. Regardless of the answer, I'd demand a paternity test. If it's yours, then the kid should become the most important thing in your life (looks like that'll be your priority based on this thread anyway).

As such, I'd stop focusing so much on a poker career and more on a stable income. A job, perhaps with benefits. It might be best to go back to the job + poker on the side route again. This can help you two-fold:

1. Alleviates the pressure to have to win perpetually.
2. On downswings, your job will cover your ass and child support payments.

You should slow down a minute at start attacking your situation. First, stay the **** out of trouble. Do not by any means talk to the ex. Let your lawyer do that. Don't even get a ****ing parking ticket. Clean up your act, eat right, exercise.

You need to figure out exactly how child support is determined and proceed accordingly. Getting the payment down to as minimal as possible should be the goal if you're truly gonna just play poker. Perhaps stop playing for a year or sth until this blows over and just work a job. Minimizing payments protects your roll, legally, and since you are acting in good faith over your future potential child, you'd support him or her beyond just those payments without hesitation.

Act in good faith in court and in life in general toward the ex. Do your best to improve the relationship in any way possible without antagonizing her, even in the face of any perceived disingenuous action/behavior. This is for the kid, the ex is in it for life no matter who she truly is inside. Your goal is to optimize a ****ty situation or capitalize on any possible outcome that is positive to the three of you and your own life in general. Good luck

“Assuming you’re a good guy and treated her right”

He was probably a bit of an ass, shes probably bat **** crazy and her family probably heard a greatly exaggerated version of his behaviour... not a good recipe. there’s a good chance they’re coaching her to cut him off and the ones who told her not to abort.

Op if you want to play poker, I’d steer clear of tournaments. Even if you’re reporting everything correctly she’ll have ways to make a case for why you owe more and potentially have you flagged by the IRS. I’d stick to working in some capacity that relates to your ‘lucrative business venture’ and play live cash until things are sorted out.

She sounds like she wants nothing to do with you. How do you know she wants child support? As far as the girl and kid is concerned, it sucks but it doesn't look like she wants you in its life, and unfortunately with all the rights men have in todays society you're pretty much going to do whatever she and the court wants.

So here's what you do. Go get a free consultation with a lawyer and ask his advice. Do not speak to her again. Do not email her again. Do not hide your money from the authorities. You're on life support now and you need to stop making bad decisions and think about the future and stop ****ing up your life from this point forward. If your bankroll is in cash or crypto, after getting the lawyers advice you need to get a full time job asap and claim that income, and be very very careful with money movements: try not to use banks. Also, you need to record and document everything. Every phone call, every correspondence. Keep it in a big file---you never know when you will need something in the future and it's better to have it all taking up space than wishing you had it. Some jurisdictions do not allow a mandatory paternity test for child support to be ordered. You need to find out from your lawyer what the best course of action is.

When she told me she was pregnant I was overjoyed and its a personal conviction of mine not to resort to abortion, and regardless of whether or not the child is mine, I commend her on keeping the child thus far and if I had a voice in the matter would continue to do so.

Things are rough right now, but I would give it 70/30 odds that child is mine.

Before the news of pregnancy, she was VERY adamant about having a child. When finishing up coitus she was extremely aggressive and encouraged me to "go for it" if you know what I mean... In hindsight this is actually relieving somewhat and gives some chance that the kiddo isn't mine. I speculate if that's the case, her behavior to hide behind the court system makes sense and allows her to tell her family I'm the dad without having to own who the father really is.

One night she was kinda pressuring me and I had her pull up her pregnancy app and she was 4-5 before "peak ovulation time" meaning there was a chance of pregnancy but my little homies would have to tough it out in there and live 4-5 days before an egg is released. So "i went for it" hoping to appease her and see if her nudges would stop after... I took a gamble. LOLOLOL. *cue benny hill theme song*

About a week after "going for it" she complained about "not being happy in our relationship" and suggested we "take a break." She complained about dealing with emotions that were arising from childhood trauma that she refused to talk about prior (she also had severe daddy issues but was fairly mature about dealing with her problems prior, though I did sense some red flags but were alleviated when I spoke to her about them. YOLO.) As the break went on she became increasingly harder to talk to and started attack me verbally, this could be a guilty conscience, pregnancy hormones, or a mixture of both. She also told me a one point took bi-polar medication for some time (now I can see why, some of her behavior was congruent with a low level of something being off.)


I appreciate your post TeflonDawg, you're fairly spot on about the course of action I decided to take at the time being.