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The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread

05-03-2009 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sholar
Yeah, sure. My main point is about the reflex to just post whatever is relevant from Mises: your two posted articles contradict not only each other but also the main assertion that fiat money was needed to finance wars throughout history. It's an interesting read to be sure, but perhaps the author is a little cavalier with the details of these grand assertions.
No reflex, I am new to Mises and still learning but the evidence would suggest if Wars had to be financed directly from gold held by Governments their would be a lot less Wars fought throughout history. Is it you assertion that their is no correlation between fiat money and Wars? Whether money is printed or bonds issued that are later paid back with depreciated money its one in the same. I'm not saying I am right by any stretch I would just like to see proof to the contrary.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inf0wars
What do you think IS causing all of these insane wars, Art? I would guess 9 / 10 people want to get out of Iraq right now, but we're still going to be there for the rest of our lifetimes...

I'm guessing your will reply something like this : " You're not smart enough to understand, but we can't JUST LEAVE, it would hinder all of the "progress" (genocide) we have already completed- we need to spread PEACE and DEMOCRACY"
I don't know, but it sure has nothing to do with gold or fiat currency. Wars happen because of game theory dynamics that exist on a grand scale between nations. But its a complicated equation which is why predicting wars, even in the short time horizon is near impossible. So lets stop the bull**** and say that wars have nothing to do with monetary backing policy, eh?

Quote:
Oh and get the "terrorists" that flew a plane into a controlled demolition... Or were they in Afghanistan? Pakistan? Who knows, let's just wipe out all the brown looking people, they're probably terrorists. Got to kill the women and children too, otherwise they might bring more terrorists into the world.

Hey, maybe we can take over Africa next and rape all of their natural resources!
I have no idea what you're talking about but I wasn't pro-Iraq and think USA's quasi-colonialism is ******ed. I don't know why you'd infer otherwise from what I was saying since I was clearly snapping at you for making the link between lack of gold and wars.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by galmost


Thoughts?
I saw this and my mining engineer friend thinks it only counts known reserves, so its kind of bunk, but I guess the point is maybe we should think more about securing a long term resource plan.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturiusX
If you're anti-welfare then you'll need to explain how you're going to extend medical care to lower socio-economic classes.
1. Reducing the ranks of the lower socio-economic classes by creating a more productive society, unencumbered by high taxes and government interference in the free market.

2. Charity, made more prevalent by lower taxation and greater productivity.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
1. Reducing the ranks of the lower socio-economic classes by creating a more productive society, unencumbered by high taxes and government interference in the free market.

2. Charity, made more prevalent by lower taxation and greater productivity.
Lower taxes do little to encourage charitable giving. It would be generous to assume that charities would get 20 cents for every dollar cut.

Creating a more productive society? Are you serious? Did you think about how our productivity compares to other countries that already have socialized medicine?
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
1. Reducing the ranks of the lower socio-economic classes by creating a more productive society, unencumbered by high taxes and government interference in the free market.

2. Charity, made more prevalent by lower taxation and greater productivity.
I'd question the greater productivity:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/200...ing-a-miracle/
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 10:26 PM
Just what a thread about hoarding seeds and silver dollars in your bunker needs: socialized medicine debates!!!
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 10:28 PM
I'm not talking about small tax cuts, I'm talking about massive tax and spending cuts. Pre-WWI levels of Federal budget to GDP.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 10:37 PM
The US economic was pretty terrible and part of a huge boom bust cycle pre WW1.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-03-2009 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
I'm not talking about small tax cuts, I'm talking about massive tax and spending cuts. Pre-WWI levels of Federal budget to GDP.
The federal income tax was just being introduced at that time.

If we were to go back to that rate, it wouldnt even cover the interest/principal on our national debt. You are suggesting a federal budget of 0.

And even if thats what you had in mind, my counterarguments are still valid.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-04-2009 , 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sholar
Yeah, sure. My main point is about the reflex to just post whatever is relevant from Mises: your two posted articles contradict not only each other but also the main assertion that fiat money was needed to finance wars throughout history. It's an interesting read to be sure, but perhaps the author is a little cavalier with the details of these grand assertions.
FFS, this was not the assertion.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-04-2009 , 04:52 PM
Eh, the topic is already dull. When someone writes "Are you saying the Wars fought from 1100 - 1945 were financed through Gold?" followed by some links, I presume that he is making some kind of assertion; even the OP didn't have an outraged reply. At any rate, I'll leave you to debate the semantics.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-07-2009 , 02:07 PM
This sort of reminds me of how the Bush family was directly involved in funding both sides of the holocaust.

Look where our tax money is going now- Haliburton, Carlyle Group, blackwater, CACI, Titan, Aegis Defense, Bechtel, General Dynamics, Custer Battles, Nour USA Ltd-- most people have never even heard of these companies, or believe they are another conspiracy theory. No way are they ever going to get to the second or third level of thought and start asking : WHO OWNS these corporations>? How come they keep winning contract after contract even though they charge us $370 for a hammer? And $8 each for styrofoam plates?

Most of the posts in this thread are useless arguments about nothing. You don't have to waste your time responding to each donkey in this thread who won't put in 1/100 of the effort into his posts as you put into your post. These people are going to be gone soon; they have no food; they have no weapons; they have no water; they will starve in a few short years if they're lucky enough to live that long.

I'm not going to name names here but there are certain people who post in this thread and clutter it up just to get a rise out of others, just because they truly have nothing better to do but make 10 posts a day and still manage to say less than many say in a single paragraph.

Think of ways to wake up our fellow patriots before it's too late. Don't waste time on people who don't want to listen.

It's a shame that all of our conversations on silver, long term food storage, guns+ammo and other preparations are regulated to one thread where all of the trolls can come and congregate and spew utter nonsense with no repercussions. OTOH, us "silver bugs/terrorists/anarchists/etc" are of course held to a much higher standard and constant picked at by the swarm of nits

I am done posting on this site with any regularity- I will come back if we have a serious change in attitude, better moderation, and HIGH QUALITY posts.

I would much rather post on a forum with 30 regulars who are all high quality posters than one with absolutely zero rules or posting standards and 300 or 3000 or 3m donkeys / trolls roaming around unchecked.

Maybe i'll be back to answer some questions lightning round style, but if you read through this entire thread all of your questions will probably be answered.

-Off digging the bunker.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-07-2009 , 03:03 PM
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-07-2009 , 07:38 PM
Yeah I'm being so nitty by asking for a source for the 'gold confiscation'.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
05-13-2009 , 10:21 PM
I came across an interesting article written by Adrian Douglas on April 29 here: http://www.marketforceanalysis.com/i...0OI%202009.pdf

He makes the claims that: 1) the big money is betting (in the options market) on significantly higher gold and silver prices by the end of this month, and 2) the big money in the precious metals options market is usually right.

Do you think Mr. Douglas is right?
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
08-31-2009 , 10:17 PM
The Central Fund of Canada (CEF) just filed a prospectus for up to $1 billion in share offerings over the next 25 months. Some would argue this is a bullish indicator for gold and silver bullion. As is apparent, CEF is seeing significant demand for their shares, or at least believes that to be the case. CEF holds gold and silver bullion, unlike ETFs like GLD. As CEF shares are demanded and its price rises, the premium to NAV rises until CEF issues more shares to raise funds to buy more bullion, pushing the premium to NAV back down.

CEF's premium to NAV is currently ~ 10% http://www.centralfund.com/Nav%20Form.htm Typically shares are issues as the premium to NAV approaches ~15%.

Historical NAV and NAV premium data for CEF can be found here: http://www.etfconnect.com/select/fun....asp?MFID=3653

====================

Central Fund Files Base Shelf Prospectus
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/s...s,943311.shtml

Quote:
TORONTO, ONTARIO -- 08/31/09 -- Central Fund of Canada Limited ("Central Fund") (TSX: CEF.A)(TSX: CEF.U)(NYSE Amex: CEF) of Calgary, Alberta is pleased to announce that it has filed a preliminary base shelf prospectus (the "Prospectus") with the securities commissions in each of the provinces and territories of Canada, except Quebec, and a registration statement with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission. This registration will allow Central Fund to offer and issue Class A non-voting, fully participating shares of Central Fund (the "Class A Shares") by way of one or more Prospectus Supplements at any time during the 25-month period that the Prospectus remains in place. Central Fund does not presently foresee authorizing an immediate Class A Share issue. The purpose of the filing of the Prospectus is to enable greater efficiency for Class A Share offerings in the future when conditions for issuances of Class A Shares may be considered as favorable for existing Shareholders and new subscribers.

Under the Prospectus, the Class A Shares may be issued from time to time at the discretion of Central Fund, with an aggregate offering amount not to exceed U.S.$1,000,000,000. Central Fund will only proceed with any such offerings if they are non-dilutive to the net asset value of the Class A Shares owned by the existing Shareholders of Central Fund. Substantially all of the net proceeds of the offering will be used for gold and silver bullion purchases, in keeping with the asset allocation policies established by the Board of Directors of Central Fund. Any additional capital raised by any such offering is expected to assist in reducing the annual expense ratio in favour of the Shareholders of Central Fund.
=============

CEF most recently raised U.S.$131,376,000 in a class A share offering completed on August 13, 2009.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Centra....html?x=0&.v=1

=============

Some generic commentary from Jesse's Café Américain on NAV premiums

Quote:
CEF and GTU are 'closed end funds' based in Canada. They purchase a set amount of the underlying commodity and rarely sell it. The most significant fluctuation in asset holdings arises from the sale of additional shares in the fund, which does happen on occasion.

Because of this, CEF and GTU are an interesting guage of gold and silver sentiment. In its initial year, GTU traded at a significant DISCOUNT to its NAV, which created an opportunity to patrons of this Cafe to invest in gold 'on the cheap.'

Why do they so often trade at a premium? Because as a proxy for physical bullion, they tend to be offset by the costs of buying and storing physical bullion.

There is a silver fund being created by this same group in Canada, which is not yet available to US investors. When it does become available we will add it to our chart.

By the way, in answering a question received, there is no proper 'spot' market other than the twice daily 'fixing' on the London Metals Exchange. The fluctuating spot price which you may see quoted is a calculation based on the time decay to the 'front month' in the futures market.

We make comparisons therefore not so much between the products on this chart, which can be interesting nonetheless as it was when GTU traded at a discount because of investor wariness. Rather, the most interesting comparisons are product to itself over time. To accomplish this you will have to search back on prior posts, if you do not have a 'feel' for the norms.

When trading a bull market, a seasoned trader will tell you 'to buy weakness and sell strength.' An exceptional trader will tell you to never lose your core position as well. We have not lost ours since 2001, although we have certainly traded around it.

"Spreads" such as these are one input into the determination of what is strength and what is weakness. There are also the familiar chart based indicators as well.

We hope this helps.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot...-etfs-and.html
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09-01-2009 , 03:52 AM
Here are some nice articles http://libertysilver.se/pages.php/page/editorials

The debt system with the paper money will collapse soon.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
09-03-2009 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
"Hennecke stressed that investors should go for physical forms of gold and other precious metals rather than "paper gold investment scheme where there isn't full backing, where the metal might be leased out or used for derivatives. That's crucial because there is 80 times more paper gold in the market than actual physical metal in existence in the planet."
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot...ur-wealth.html
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
09-03-2009 , 02:09 PM
FWIW, interesting that today gold is up 2%, silver up 5%, at the same time that the USD is also up.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
09-03-2009 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikTheDread
FWIW, interesting that today gold is up 2%, silver up 5%, at the same time that the USD is also up.
Can anyone explain why the metals have taken off the past few days while other commodities (oil, et al) have been flat?
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
09-03-2009 , 02:52 PM
Not really sure. Possibilities include:
People are fearing a major market pullback, and gold is seen as a "flight to safety".
It is rumored that China is buying a lot of physical gold.
Short squeeze.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
09-03-2009 , 08:40 PM
Wave 3 of THREE begins.
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
09-04-2009 , 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by binions
Wave 3 of THREE begins.
In anticipation of another round of deleveraging/deflation during which gold's nominal value (in US dollars) would likely decline, I've been holding a short position to mostly hedge my bullion holding. Therefore, I mostly missed out on this recent spike in price.

I am surprised by gold's move at a time when inflation is absent and the USD appears to be forming a bottom. Any idea of fundamental reasons for this golden rally? Is it forecasting an impending financial catastrophe? Might it be related to the Chinese government's new policy that its companies need not honor derivative contracts made with Western banks?

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssF...47327420090831
The Official Gold, Commodity, Alternative Currency and Asset Investment Thread Quote
09-04-2009 , 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid
In anticipation of another round of deleveraging/deflation during which gold's nominal value (in US dollars) would likely decline
Leaving aside the deflation/inflation debate/definitions . . .

The world has never experienced deflation where all paper money was backed only by government promise not to print more.

Gold is the only true money. Under these circumstances, of course gold will rise in deflation.

Cash is king in deflation, and gold is the ultimate cash because its supply is constrained.
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